points by zeteo 9 years ago

After reading a fair amount about Stoicism and still being unclear, I've found a good summary in Adam Smith's almost forgotten classic, "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" (1759) [1]:

"Human life the Stoics appear to have considered as a game of great skill; in which, however, there was a mixture of chance [...] In such games the stake is commonly a trifle, and the whole pleasure of the game arises from playing well, from playing fairly, and playing skilfully. If notwithstanding all his skill, however, the good player should, by the influence of chance, happen to lose, the loss ought to be a matter, rather of merriment, than of serious sorrow. He has made no false stroke; he has done nothing which he ought to be ashamed of; he has enjoyed completely the whole pleasure of the game. [...]

Our only anxious concern ought to be, not about the stake, but about the proper method of playing. If we placed our happiness in winning the stake, we placed it in what depended upon causes beyond our power, and out of our direction. We necessarily exposed ourselves to perpetual fear and uneasiness, and frequently to grievous and mortifying disappointments. If we placed it in playing well, in playing fairly, in playing wisely and skilfully; in the propriety of our own conduct in short; we placed it in what, by proper discipline, education, and attention, might be altogether in our own power, and under our own direction. Our happiness was perfectly secure, and beyond the reach of fortune."

[1] http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smMS7.html

noam87 9 years ago

I have this great collection from 1901 "World's Best Essays" -- 9 tomes. Everything from Seneca to Adam Smith.

It's sad how much knowledge and social/ethical advancement is being forgotten. Our schools and universities are failing society. We're just going to keep making the same mistakes.

Edit: 10 volumes.

adrianratnapala 9 years ago

Doh! I thought I was onto something when I read Bertrand Russell critise the Stoics and thought "Don't you get it fool! To them, life is like football: play hard, play fair, that's what counts".

And, as I should have expected, Adam Smith has anticipated us all. I find it pretty funny that Smith doesn't even get a mention in Russell's history of western philosophy.

  • ArkyBeagle 9 years ago

    I suspect Smith was ahead of Russel at his best. As I recall, Smith gets good treatment by many other historians.

phil_s_stein 9 years ago

This reminds me of a quote by Renier Knizia, the boardgame designer, about playing boardgames: "When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning".

calinet6 9 years ago

So many parallels to Zen here. Fascinating. For others, if you like this type of thinking, then I would recommend checking out the much larger body of resources and practices around Zen Buddhism.

  • offa 9 years ago

    What books/essays would you recommend to start with?

ElonsMosque 9 years ago

Reading that felt strangely liberating. It's a refreshing and eloquent reiteration of the whole idea of the goal being the journey and vice versa. Contrary to what modern society has instilled in us..

  • TeMPOraL 9 years ago

    Society sure loves mixed signals. I always had the impression the modern culture tries to push exactly the "journey is the goal" idea into people, and I vehemently dislike it. To use a silly example, if I want to eat pizza, I do want to get the goddamn pizza, I definitely don't want to "enjoy the journey" of calling up the joint and placing the order.

    Or in more general terms, focusing on the journey instead of the goal leads to complete detachment from reality - running in circles and enjoying the patterns of your own thoughts, like a stoned hippie. It's vegetation, not life.

    I do read Adam Smith's quote differently - the way I understand it, it says to focus on a goal, but to derive happiness from the process and make that happiness independent of whether or not the goal will be ultimately achieved. An impossible thing to do in full, but definitely worth pursuing.

    • exergy 9 years ago

      Wow, that's a really interesting point. I've definitely seen the "enjoying the patterns of your own thought" thing with Leo from Zen Habits for example. He seems to rehash previous articles all the time, and I haven't heard a new thought come from him in years. No disrespect to him, he's probably found his contentment, but just an observation.

    • wcummings 9 years ago

      >running in circles and enjoying the patterns of your own thoughts

      Sounds pretty attractive to me

      • grzm 9 years ago

        As long as the thoughts are helpful, that can be attractive for a short period. Often, they're not. Easy to get caught up in, and, even if they're positive, there is a big wide world out there that we have to engage in on some level, if only to satisfy our basic needs.

        Edit to add: Just noticed one of your other comments, on paying attention to driving :)

        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13002601

      • TeMPOraL 9 years ago

        For a while, yes. But that's essentially wireheading without the wire ;). Feels pretty shallow to me.

        (Then again, we wouldn't have most of our problems in this world if we just stuck to being stoned hippie self-wireheaded cavedwellers ;).)

  • digi_owl 9 years ago

    Because said instillment has been done to give the industries and outlet for their products. that we should always be wanting something new, something "better" (as defined by the industries, not you or me). Turn on a TV, radio, read a magazine, newspaper, or even web sites, and we get carped bombed by this message.

abhianet 9 years ago

Truly forgotten. I have read a number of works by Smith but never came across this one. Would be adding this to me reading-list.

On a side note, this sounds a lot like The Bhagvad Gita[1]. Is there a relationship between these two works, or is it just great minds thinking alike?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita#Karma_yoga

[EDIT]: Grammer

keeptrying 9 years ago

Even if you believe the importance is to have played well, you can still fall into the trap of regretting how you played before.

The mind can generate demons in most any form.

  • ArkyBeagle 9 years ago

    The thing is to recognize them as demons and ignore them. That's the ... fundamental idea behind Stoicism.

the_cat_kittles 9 years ago

i mean that is just fantastic. ive believed that for so long and never realized it. thank you so much for posting.

narutouzumaki 9 years ago

Wow. I do not have much to say except that these lines have made me understand a lot. Or maybe it has always already been there but never formulated so clearly and poignant. Thanks!

rhizome 9 years ago

OT, but that dude sure liked commas.

welanes 9 years ago

An alternative definition:

> Stoicism means never having to say, "Gee, I really lost my sh*t back there."