KabuseCha 5 years ago

Before anyone out there buys one of these domains for SEO-purposes:

I work as a technical-SEO consultant and we had the funny idea of checking all these domains about a year ago: None of them are worth buying! None of them has any SEO-potential!

- the page-rank passed from milliondollarhomepage.com to these domains is minimal (huge PR divided through tons of links is worthless)

- domains expired for a long time get some sort of "reset" from Google (we experimented with this - strong domains last used years ago do not rank faster than "fresh" domains)

Therefore, in the case of PageRank and SEO-potential: It is better to try to buy domains of local companies in your area that went out of business. These are much stronger.

And in general: Buying old domains for backlinks is a waste of time. Getting high-quality backlinks from legit sites and improving your own domain in regards to technical optimization and usability is much more effective - and scalable.

Edit: Improved formatting

  • tobr 5 years ago

    > It is better to try to buy domains of local companies in your area that went out of business. These are much stronger.

    In your opinion, is this ethical?

    • KabuseCha 5 years ago

      In my opinion: It's neither ethical nor necessary!

      There are easier ways to get a website ranked. Publishing good and useful content, creating a valuable product, optimizing your site (for crawlers and users), and following a sane marketing strategy is much more important than backlinks and page rank. I never had any problems outranking poorly made sites that had a much "stronger" link-profile than my sites.

      Needless to say: You will also build a better product/business if you do not waste your focus on cheap SEO-tricks ...

      But I do not judge people using these tactics: SEO is daunting-game and - as long as Google acts as intransparent and unpredictable as it has in the past - people will focus on "esoteric" tactics.

      • _carl_jung 5 years ago

        > Publishing good and useful content, creating a valuable product

        I follow a lot of indie game development forums, and one of the most striking things to me is how many people want to hit success with garbage casual mobile games by focusing heavily on app store tips and tricks.

      • itwy 5 years ago

        This sounds like a diplomatic answer so you don't get downvoted. You say you are "technical-SEO consultant" then you say SEO tricks are useless and one should only create good contents and SEO will take care of itself. What are you useful for then (as a consultant)?

        • LeifCarrotson 5 years ago

          Because people need to be told this. Over and over again.

          A highly-paid medical doctor saying "You need to eat less and exercise more to lose weight" is not unexpected. The problem is that people really want to eat crap and not exercise and still be healthy.

          I (an industrial controls engineer) worked on a website for my employer's small business some years ago. I was given about 40 hours to design and implement the website to describe some 200 products that we've built over the years. Some had pictures, and some even had manuals. Most had some kind of a spreadsheet entry, but between Google (now Open) Refine and some intern hours we had a product page for each. "Magic algorithmic keyword SEO juice" was the desired strategy, such that each product page ought to zoom to the top of Google results for its search term, and I (not being a technical SEO consultant) was unable to effectively convince my boss that hiding 100 copies of the title and thesaurus-generated synonyms in white-on-white text at 0 point at the bottom of the page was not the way to do it, and that linking to it from a useful and therefore popular page would work better.

          A lot of small businesses view documentation as pure overhead, to be minimized at all costs. The idea that you'd have a project manager or engineer write up the email you sent (or phone call you narrated) describing how to calibrate an XYZ blagometer, copy edit it, add some diagrams, and post it as an article or whitepaper to improve future sales is viewed as wasteful and not worth the effort.

          The SEO industry is like the weight loss industry. When you hear an SEO consultant advocate creating good content, that means they're one of the good ones. If you hear them describe miracle cures, they're a hack.

        • KabuseCha 5 years ago

          Hello - good question!

          Technical SEO - as I use the term - describes tasks like the following:

          1) Performance optimization (One of the most important tasks)

          It's basically me telling my clients that their Devs were right all along and that they have to improve their site's speed

          2) UX feedback (Help in terms of usability and user experience because unusable sites will rank much worse on Google)

          This is basically me telling my clients that their "fancy" 200.000 $ redesign will never rank in Google and that they have to use a "boring" design. (Their Devs were right again ...)

          3) Improve internal linking (Prioritize important pages with high search volume, deprioritize less important pages)

          More complicated, but this is one of the most important tasks for "big" websites (e-commerce, news, travel, ...) and one of the biggest levers to improve rankings

          4) manage URL-corpus

          One of my clients' had every single article of his indexed on more than 5 different URLs (eg. https://www.website.com/correct-url, https://www.website.com/correct-url/, https://www.website.com/correct-url?preview, https://www.website.com/correct-url/?preview,https://www.web..., https://www.website.com/?1234). Each URL hat internal links pointing to it, so the domain's "power" was split through hundreds of thousands of URLs. Google hates this and traffic exploded after fixing this.

          ...

          A lot of other related tasks are not that easy to explain for me in text (I am a non-native English speaker and this comment already took me 20 minutes up until here ...) and my guidelines vary from website to website.

          But, essentially, I help clients to adhere to web standards and optimize their websites for their users. The last "spammy" backlink I build for a project other than my side-projects (experiments) was probably more than 5 years ago ...

          • graeme 5 years ago

            Do you have a website or contact info for hiring? I'm interested. You can reach me at the email in my profile if you prefer.

          • itwy 5 years ago

            That makes sense. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

        • chipotle_coyote 5 years ago

          you say SEO tricks are useless

          SEO tricks are useless, but that's not the same as saying SEO is useless:

          > optimizing your site (for crawlers and users), and following a sane marketing strategy

          That's a lot of what (non-jerky) SEO is these days.

          One can argue that it's not something worth hiring an SEO consultant for, as there's enough info floating around out there to do this yourself if you're moderately savvy. But there are folks who aren't savvy about that sort of thing, as well as folks who think it's just worth paying someone else to worry about it.

    • danvoell 5 years ago

      In your opinion, is it not ethical? Should people not buy the real-estate either because a company went out of business there?

      • PhasmaFelis 5 years ago

        If you buy the storefront of a company that went out of business, keep the signage so their old customers will come in looking for them, and install a conveyor belt that whisks them directly to your store instead, yeah, that's unethical.

        There's honestly not a great meatspace analogy to the situation, no matter how you look at it. But it's clearly not the same as just buying foreclosed real estate.

        • wolco 5 years ago

          My local convience store is called Tom's.. It has been around for many years. The current chinese owners never changed the name nor the owners before. Same sign, same products.. nothing unethical.

          Kind of like when a big company buys a smaller company and keeps the brand name.

          • PhasmaFelis 5 years ago

            > Same sign, same products.. nothing unethical.

            Exactly. If it's basically the same business under new management, there's nothing wrong with keeping the name. If it's a new business with no relationship to the old, trading on the name to grant false credibility and bring confused customers into their own shop, that's unethical.

            • NikkiA 5 years ago

              And kinda stupid if you're trying to game the reputation of a business that went bust.

        • travisjungroth 5 years ago

          Buying a doctor’s practice feels a lot like this to me.

      • tobr 5 years ago

        I can imagine circumstances where I’d find it ethical, for example when the expired domain name in itself is useful to you (say, you want to move your own site to wisconsincarpetcleaners.com instead of .info or whatever)

        If you do it only to freeload off someone else’s reputation, that doesn’t seem great to me. For the comparison to real-estate, I have nothing to add beyond what PhasmaFelis wrote.

    • kabwj 5 years ago

      Nothing about SEO is ethical. It’s about appearing on google when you wouldn’t under natural circumstances.

      • Cthulhu_ 5 years ago

        What Google has done over the years is thwart some of the scummy SEO practices by penalizing websites that do it; a big part of current-day SEO practices are to make your website conform to web and content standards. Basically, turn it into a decent site.

        There's still the black market SEO where people hire spambots to send links, but that's been thwarted / voided by just adding a nofollow to links in user generated content like comments.

        • mcnesium 5 years ago

          but then you wouldn't do "search engine optimization", but rather proper web engineering.

          • Jorsiem 5 years ago

            SEO has become an ambigous, all encompassing term. "Proper web engineer" is now a subcategory of SEO.

            Also "proper web engineering" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

          • bduerst 5 years ago

            The point is there's a Venn diagram where these two standards overlap.

      • gbear605 5 years ago

        It depends on the type of SEO. SEO includes, for instance, making sure that your page loads quickly when otherwise you wouldn’t have prioritized that. A lot of it is unethical though.

      • moonbug 5 years ago

        What, precisely, is "natural" about Google?

        • JohnJamesRambo 5 years ago

          The progression towards evil as it became more of a monopoly.

  • stablethrowaway 5 years ago

    > Therefore, in the case of PageRank and SEO-potential: It is better to try to buy domains of local companies in your area that went out of business. These are much stronger.

    I never understood how this works. What do you do with these domains? Do you just redirect them to the main business site or do you create a supporting site on them that heavily links to the business site?

    Anyway the old domains won't get any new attention if you don't work on that and then you can just can work on your main domain.

    • luckylion 5 years ago

      > Anyway the old domains won't get any new attention if you don't work on that and then you can just can work on your main domain.

      It doesn't have to get any attention. Links (or a redirect, or other things) from it will still (massively, depending on the quality of the domain) improve your ranking.

      You could also throw some unrelated content on it, and will likely rank for quite a while until somebody complains loud enough that Google manually sets up a -100 on your domain.

  • Piskvorrr 5 years ago

    Is this domain-name-is-everything.nonsense still a thing? Not in SEO myself, but even a few years back, the ranking was heavily shifted towards actual content, never mind the domain name.

  • Maven911 5 years ago

    For someone who wanted to learn cutting-edge SEO (for Google mainly) what are some good resources ?

    • hnjim 5 years ago

      Ahrefs and moz have large amounts of tutorial content and posts that dig into current issues.

    • russh 5 years ago

      I'd start with "The Godfather" and if you still have any questions follow it up with parts II and III.

  • paulpauper 5 years ago

    >And in general: Buying old domains for backlinks is a waste of time. Getting high-quality backlinks from legit sites and improving your own domain in regards to technical optimization and usability is much more effective - and scalable.

    Yeah no kidding. Like saying that a 5 star hostel is nicer than 1 star one. Obviously, it's much more epxnsive. If buying a $11 expired domain is good enough to help get the page indexed, then it may be worth it even if does not help your rankings.

    >Therefore, in the case of PageRank and SEO-potential: It is better to try to buy domains of local companies in your area that went out of business. These are much stronger.

    yea this is old method that is saturated. there are many of ppl with programs scanning for expired domains

runnr_az 5 years ago

Whoa. Woke up to my project on the front page of Hackernews.

Obviously, this is kind of a dumb idea... but I tried to create it in the voice of a guy who really, really thinks the MillionDollarHomepage is most important thing in the world. Glad people are enjoying it.

  • vyrotek 5 years ago

    Ha, Congrats :)

    Also hello from Tempe as well! Are you still at GoDaddy? I'm a dev lead over at DriveTime. Always fun to run into folks in AZ here.

    • runnr_az 5 years ago

      Ahh... right on! I'm in Scottsdale now. To me, it feels like we're starting to really make things happen in AZ, from a tech perspective. Lots of talented people are returning here to raise families, get some kind of work / life balance, etc...

  • andreygrehov 5 years ago

    Please, do not ruin browser's history. Ever.

    • andreygrehov 5 years ago

      To all the downvoteres. In all seriousness, it's been told a million times that breaking user's back button is a bad practice. The OPs project is great, no complains here, respect. But why in the world my browser history look like this: https://imgur.com/a/90WAGYq ?

gkoberger 5 years ago

It took me a minute to figure out what this is doing... basically, it shows you which expired domains you can buy that bought pixels on the Million Dollar Homepage.

It doesn't really work all that well (most of the domains are still actually registered but don't resolve), but it's clever!

  • lhoff 5 years ago

    The ones I checked were all available.

    The real question is, will the pixels be reloaded differently if you buy a domain and place a different image there.

    • lifthrasiir 5 years ago

      Well, it is a 15-year-old static image. It won't be changed.

      Judging from a pastebin linked from a neighboring comment however, most domains are quite specific enough that pixels can be left as is (you can't really use "clinicalimaging.net" for something other than, well, clinical imaging). In the other words you are really buying a domain and its historical legacy including pixels.

    • soulofmischief 5 years ago
      • Fnoord 5 years ago

        My eyes. Hurt. Thanks for the reminder that the 90s of web browsing wasn't the panacea which appeared through my rose-tinted, nostalgia-enabling glasses.

        • pavel_lishin 5 years ago

          Doesn't look significantly worse than a regular website with the adblocker turned off, tbh. At least the Million Dollar Homepage isn't animated, and doesn't auto-play sound.

          • dredmorbius 5 years ago

                <marquee>
                Both features were used <blink>heavily</blink> at the time.
                </marquee>
            • ry_ry 5 years ago

              My favourite Easter egg: <marquee> still works in Chrome.

              At least I hope it's an Easter egg, and not left in to provide legacy support ;)

        • jandrese 5 years ago

          It looks like every billboard from the bad part of town collapsing into a crassly commercial singularity.

        • soulofmischief 5 years ago

          To be fair, the website was launched in 2005.

    • aidos 5 years ago

      I don’t think so. From memory it’s just a big collection of images that were all provided over email and manually added to the page (we got a space just for a laugh at the time).

      • kijin 5 years ago

        It's a giant image map (thousands of <area> tags) based on a single 1000x1000px image, which is hosted directly on the million dollar homepage.

    • fheld 5 years ago

      no, the pixels stay

  • logicallee 5 years ago

    I clicked through first (like a good boy), spent 2-3 minutes reading the whole FAQ, then was going to post "can someone dumb this down for me? I don't get it." So thank you.

superasn 5 years ago

Isn't this what the SEO guys do to get their sites ranked? IIRC this trick is used to steal pagerank from expired domains and rank quickly on Google (though not sure if it works or not)

Liron 5 years ago

A million dollar homepage isn't cool. You know what's cool?

A billion dollar homepage by the same founder [1]

[1] https://calm.com

  • runnr_az 5 years ago

    Yeah... gotta give that guy props. To launch his career with something so ridiculous and bold as the MillionDollarHomepage would have been enough. Love it that he kept going!

    • superasn 5 years ago

      This guy knows how to do PR and advertising properly to generate massive amounts of buzz.

      There was this article about the MDH where he outlined the exact PR strategy including hiring one of the best PR consultant at the time (sadly I can't find it because I'm on a phone). Point being, the site wasn't an accidental success like a lot of people think it was.

      Sure it wasn't 100% guaranteed to be successful as nothing is, but the launch and PR was done like an engineering project. No wonder he is doing it over and over.

wodenokoto 5 years ago

I wonder what kind of traffic the million dollar homepage generates, both daily now, but also in its timespan.

Regardless of the worth of incoming hits from tmdhp, I think this pixel pirate club is a funny idea and a blast into the past!

  • Fnoord 5 years ago

    I guess what this is, is up to everyone themselves. For some, this is an art project while to others its a scam.

dsl 5 years ago

It is checking DNS resolution, not actual availability.

Here is a list of all the domains that are available (as of when this post had 2 comments): https://pastebin.com/SXWzgxnH

  • PinguTS 5 years ago

    Actually, on the site there are 2 status information: availability AND does it resolve.

    So, it is not just checking DNS resolution.

    • dsl 5 years ago

      Well seeing as my checks against the registries yielded different results, whatever it is doing is not checking actual availability.

  • prepend 5 years ago

    How did you produce this list? I checked out the four char domains, 100w.com and ungy.com, and they show as expiring 2024-03-23 and 2019-07-29.

    • runnr_az 5 years ago

      Hey... so the domain checker runs async, so it was behind by a bit. Honestly, didn't expect an influx of interest! It's getting back up to date...

newman8r 5 years ago

I've registered entire defunct image hosts (back from the 2000s) - with thousands of existing old image links. Need to do something interesting with those when I get the time.

  • logicallee 5 years ago

    How much traffic do you get on it?

    • newman8r 5 years ago

      I don't have the logs anymore but I remember it being several thousand requests for the image files every month, but I assume it's fairly worthless traffic - interesting though.

      Lots of links to random forum posts, where the images are just broken.

  • fheld 5 years ago

    anything in mind?

    • newman8r 5 years ago

      Something hilarious. Maybe a notice that the image in question has been taken down by the internet police.

    • YUMad 5 years ago

      Serve goatse for all links

bhartzer 5 years ago

If you're looking for SEO value... there's a fairly easy way to check a list of domains. Use the Majestic.com 'bulk backlink checker', and sort by Trust Flow. You'll want to find domains that have a higher TF than CF.

Also keep in mind that many of these domains might not have SEO value, but they may actually have email value (they're still getting emails) which can be monetized.

  • lifeformed 5 years ago

    How would you monetize the emails?

helpmepropose 5 years ago

Interesting and fun project! Also kind of surprised to see this on HN as I recently launched a vaguely similar project (1$ = 1 pixel in a website image), but raising money for charity and designed around a marriage proposal instead of mere advertising.

jtbayly 5 years ago

I’m more interested in the domain name being displayed as several skull and crossbones icons in iOS.

I didn’t know icons could be used in a url.

  • playpause 5 years ago

    Yes, you can use most Unicode in a domain name these days, by using Punycode, but not all browsers support it. In this case, "xn--h4haaaa.ws" displays as "️️️️️<5x skull-and-crossbones emoji>.ws" in certain browsers, including iOS Safari.

    This site is using a bit of clientside JS [1] to automatically redirect the user from "xn--h4haaaa.ws" to "pixelpirate.club" and vice versa, depending on if your browser supports "Emoji domains" [2].

    [1] https://github.com/jonroig/emojiurlifier

    [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji_domain

    • jtbayly 5 years ago

      Thanks. I suspected the redirect I saw might be related to that since the domain name above obviously wasn’t the same thing I was seeing.

soulofmischief 5 years ago

Thanks for sharing, OP. Just sniped one, it'll make the perfect birthday gift.

agurk 5 years ago

If anyone was wondering about if people would actually pick these up when this page first hit the front page with no comments, there were 209 domains available. Now ~12 hours later there are 74.

I nearly got when when I first saw them, and there was more availability, but couldn't think of any use for one so held off. I really should have logged all of the domains, and seen if anyone puts anything interesting up on them.

leowoo91 5 years ago

Pirate? Who will guarantee domains will stay the same?