Planes crash constantly by that argument as well. Anecdotes are not data. If you’re going to make a claim about something “constantly” happening, provide some stats.
One is too many. Constantly for something like this, kidnapping a citizen and holding him without charges or due process is pretty much all the time... this is what the troops supposedly die for, freedom.
See other comments: this happens regularly, and these victims are frequently held for weeks at a time without access to attorneys or being charged. That is a consistent pattern of violating the US constitution - it is not possible to enforce immigration policy in the way some people want to without violating the constitution.
I don't disagree, the comment I was responding to originally just said "one is too many". All I was saying is that one is certainly too many, but that doesn't mean you can use an anecdote to indicate that something happens regularly. Others have provided stats which actually do show that this happens regularly, which is great.
>Those data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
For how long? That 693 number is going to include people who are caught smuggling/trafficking/etc. However, that number seems low to include that, so what is it a count of?
1500 over 9 years is less than how many people die in airline crashes. Both are terrible and there is no reason not to improve it.
But it’s hardly a crisis that requires any kind of drastic overhaul.
The article I linked reports 1500 citizens were held for some period of time on federal detainers or in immigration detention centers over a 9 year period.
Absolutely, and I'm sure there's more cases we simply don't hear about. The lack of accountability is a huge issue and the fact that you can get swept up into this disaster because you have the wrong name or were at the wrong place should concern people quite a bit.
> Francisco Galicia told his mother, who lives in Edinburg, that he was detained because he didn’t have his U.S. passport. But she said he did present CBP with his Texas ID.
By this standard, I suspect at least half the US population could be rounded up and held unconstitutionally:
The article doesn't give much to go on regarding details of th case. FWIW, the idea that being born on US soil makes you a citizen (as plainly stated in the 14th amendment) appears to still be controversial:
"A US-born Marine veteran who served in Afghanistan had his US passport, a REAL ID driver’s license, a military ID card, and his US Marine Corps dog tags with him when he was arrested by police in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which held him for three days before his lawyer demanded his release, according to the ACLU of Michigan."
Tl;dr caught at a CBP checkpoint with an underage Mexican immigrant without legal status. Presumed by CBP to also be Mexican immigrant and handed over to ICE.
Seems we need an easier way to prove citizenship at CBP checkpoints. Being expected to carry any ID in-country as a citizen is bullshit (I know that’s common in other countries but that’s not ok).
The other person was another US citizen and they were in the United States and stopped for being tan. After proof of citizenship was provided he still hasn't been released. What about this story is okay with you? U.S. citizens shouldn't be being stopped by customs away from the border, US citizens shouldn't be detained without representation and denied civil liberties, US citizens shouldn't be forced into signing deportation documents in order to get legal representation or talk to their family. They definitely shouldn't continue to be in custody for immigration after their legal documents have been provided.
It's in the article he was traveling with his brother who had a Texas ID which requires a US social security number? Was there someone else mentioned in the article I missed in my reading?
This happens constantly. Davino Watson was held by ICE for over three years.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038...
Planes crash constantly by that argument as well. Anecdotes are not data. If you’re going to make a claim about something “constantly” happening, provide some stats.
One is too many. Constantly for something like this, kidnapping a citizen and holding him without charges or due process is pretty much all the time... this is what the troops supposedly die for, freedom.
One is too many, but one is also not constantly
See other comments: this happens regularly, and these victims are frequently held for weeks at a time without access to attorneys or being charged. That is a consistent pattern of violating the US constitution - it is not possible to enforce immigration policy in the way some people want to without violating the constitution.
I don't disagree, the comment I was responding to originally just said "one is too many". All I was saying is that one is certainly too many, but that doesn't mean you can use an anecdote to indicate that something happens regularly. Others have provided stats which actually do show that this happens regularly, which is great.
It's not possible to enforce immigration policy the way some other people want without violating human rights.
Ugh wow my grammar there was an absolute train wreck
>Those data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR.
For how long? That 693 number is going to include people who are caught smuggling/trafficking/etc. However, that number seems low to include that, so what is it a count of?
1500 over 9 years is less than how many people die in airline crashes. Both are terrible and there is no reason not to improve it.
But it’s hardly a crisis that requires any kind of drastic overhaul.
The article I linked reports 1500 citizens were held for some period of time on federal detainers or in immigration detention centers over a 9 year period.
Absolutely, and I'm sure there's more cases we simply don't hear about. The lack of accountability is a huge issue and the fact that you can get swept up into this disaster because you have the wrong name or were at the wrong place should concern people quite a bit.
> Francisco Galicia told his mother, who lives in Edinburg, that he was detained because he didn’t have his U.S. passport. But she said he did present CBP with his Texas ID.
By this standard, I suspect at least half the US population could be rounded up and held unconstitutionally:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/after/p...
The article doesn't give much to go on regarding details of th case. FWIW, the idea that being born on US soil makes you a citizen (as plainly stated in the 14th amendment) appears to still be controversial:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_th...
Even a passport isn't necessarily enough anymore:
"A US-born Marine veteran who served in Afghanistan had his US passport, a REAL ID driver’s license, a military ID card, and his US Marine Corps dog tags with him when he was arrested by police in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which held him for three days before his lawyer demanded his release, according to the ACLU of Michigan."
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-ma...
The plain language of the 14th qualifies that statement. The debate is over what the qualifier (subject to the jurisdiction thereof) means.
The 14th is a far more complex topic than you're making it out to be.
Tl;dr caught at a CBP checkpoint with an underage Mexican immigrant without legal status. Presumed by CBP to also be Mexican immigrant and handed over to ICE.
Seems we need an easier way to prove citizenship at CBP checkpoints. Being expected to carry any ID in-country as a citizen is bullshit (I know that’s common in other countries but that’s not ok).
No, that's incorrect. They were not trying to enter the country, they were passing a CBP checkpoint within the US.
Falfurrias is 90 miles from the border.
The other person was another US citizen and they were in the United States and stopped for being tan. After proof of citizenship was provided he still hasn't been released. What about this story is okay with you? U.S. citizens shouldn't be being stopped by customs away from the border, US citizens shouldn't be detained without representation and denied civil liberties, US citizens shouldn't be forced into signing deportation documents in order to get legal representation or talk to their family. They definitely shouldn't continue to be in custody for immigration after their legal documents have been provided.
No, the other person was not a US citizen, which is what likely led to this exploding.
>It was about 8 p.m. Marlon, who was born in Mexico and lacked legal status
I agree that he shouldn’t be denied representation, regardless of what the scenario looks like.
Traveling on the bus with an undocumented/illegal/non-resident person is hardly cause for anything exploding.
Denied representation AND due process.
It's in the article he was traveling with his brother who had a Texas ID which requires a US social security number? Was there someone else mentioned in the article I missed in my reading?