points by Razengan 6 years ago

I still love macOS but Catalina has been the buggiest beta and release that I can recall. When we saw betas of x.1 before there were even GMs/release candidates of x.0 we knew it was going to be rushed out the door.

Even after release it's still randomly losing files. Just yesterday my purchased music downloads just disappeared. No explanation (unless I trashed and emptied them in a fugue state). They were still showing as downloaded in the Music app, but when I tried to play them I got the "File missing. Locate?" dialog, so the Music app wasn't aware of this either. They weren't stored on iCloud Drive either, just the default local music folder, so it wasn't related to the iCloud Drive bug. This was a clean installation on a fresh disk, no third party system level junk, and after the unnumbered OS update they released a while ago.

There are quite a few other bugs too. macOS is still the better alternative to Windows, but the wow factor of "It just works!" is becoming rare and bug fatigue is creeping in.

lostgame 6 years ago

>> it's still randomly losing files.

Whoa, no. That is a huge code red for me as a creative. Especially in the music folder. I work at all crazy times of day and night, inspiration hits, and is often impossible to replace. Not alright.

  • deanclatworthy 6 years ago

    That’s why as a creative you should be using a backup solution. With modern internet connections backing up is quick and efficient. File loss should be expected on the FS. Many things can and will go wrong one day.

    • arvinsim 6 years ago

      Having a backup still doesn't excuse Catalina for that bug.

      • deanclatworthy 6 years ago

        Didn’t say it did. But doesn’t matter what OS you’re on, data might get lost at the hardware or software level.

        • exergy 6 years ago

          In which case, your point was quite tangential to what was being discussed before, no?

    • mihaaly 6 years ago

      adapting to something wrong is no progress at all but the opposite

      (so what you are saying is that the backup is not buggy? ;) or having cool AI perhaps deciding when a situation is not for backup because it is a wrong situation, now that would be a cute feature, working hard developing cool ML techniques to recognise and handle elementary system f* ups!)

    • jonathanstrange 6 years ago

      A big No to that. File loss should be expected due to disk failure, but certainly not "on the file system." That's like saying data loss should be expected in a database. If your FS loses files, get a better FS.

      • pjc50 6 years ago

        It's not usually the FS itself losing them, but some process getting misled into deleting the wrong directory.

  • Razengan 6 years ago

    I’m guessing it was a bug in the Music app, or remote deletion because of new versions/format/DRM but the Music app didn’t notify.

    Or I did indeed delete them myself but can’t recall. I had no reason to.

TheSpiceIsLife 6 years ago

I got to say, my Windows 10 PC at work, with an 8 year old CPU, has been rock fucking solid.

So has my 2013 MBPr at home.

  • FPGAhacker 6 years ago

    My win10 pc at work is living hell, but I’m 95% sure this is all the corporate spyware and anti malware shit my employer throws on top.

    Windows 10 vanilla is probably pretty nice.

    [edited to clarify the source of the problem]

    • goatinaboat 6 years ago

      It’s possible that your IT Department are idiots of course, but it’s also possible your management insist on downloading random crap from the internet, plugging in random USB drives and so, and powerless to just ban that activity, the IT dept are doing the best they can...

      • stinos 6 years ago

        It’s possible that your IT Department are idiots

        I wouldn't use exactly those words, more like 'not really capable', but yeah, definitely possible. Due to circumstances I can run my own machines out of IT's hands. This is a pretty large university, yet: my Linux, Windows 7 and 10 machines are what I'd call rock solid even despite aged hardware. Better spec'd machines running the same OS managed by IT seem to be riddled with random bugs and in case of Windows also slower.

      • FPGAhacker 6 years ago

        I’m sure what’s left of our IT dept has the usual distribution of folks. But we have 100,000+ employees, and basically 1 policy for everyone.

  • Pokepokalypse 6 years ago

    Seems to me 2013 was the real sweet-spot for MBP.

    I still use mine almost every single day. It's a beast, and has been very reliable. Keyboard is WAY nicer to type on than the current generation. It's a little thicker and heavier, and lacks USB-c ports, but it's still damn fine.

    • mihaaly 6 years ago

      The same here!

    • lostlogin 6 years ago

      Or was for the Air too.

    • madaxe_again 6 years ago

      Yup. Still on my pimped-out 2013 MBP. Still has plenty of horses, and the only things that have failed were a fan ((cats & cigarettes) simple replacement), and the power lead wore through.

      Super reliable machine, still relevant performance-wise.

      I plan on using it until it disintegrates.

      Edit: I wonder if apple regret making these machines. They seem like a failure of planned obsolescence - at least, until new releases of OS X stop supporting them, which will probably be the next release, looking at the current horizon. Anyway. Totally broke the upgrade cycle for me - I have grown rather fond of my (t)rusty steed. My mother upgrades more often than I do, usually because she’s left every process open and running, and the machine is slow, and therefore she thinks she needs a new one.

      • TheSpiceIsLife 6 years ago

        I bought my mum a MacBook Pro, I honestly can't remember what year or which CPU. She told me last week she had someone put a new battery in it and an SSD to replace the spinning disk. She's still well happy with it.

        It's a good point about the planned obsolescence: I've dropped this machine so many times it doesn't quite close properly, the aluminium around the top of both USB ports and the HDMI port are deformed, I've had to clean metal particles out of the MagSafe2 connector many times, I work in a metal fabrication workshop so metal particles follow me everywhere.

        Six year old machine still in reasonably good condition and works fine.

      • Razengan 6 years ago

        > I wonder if apple regret making these machines.

        If your old products are still running fine that's only good publicity and generates word-of-mouth credibility.

      • aeorgnoieang 6 years ago

        I find planned obsolescence to be fascinating. First-order, it seems obviously terrible, both of the companies that (deliberately) practice it and for their hapless customers.

        But second-order (and beyond), particularly from the perspective of the companies, I'm less sure what's best, or if there even is a global, objective 'best'.

        Consider the most radically distant point you can imagine in 'self-supporting human group' configuration space, that's still capable of making something like a MacBook. What does it look like? How is funded/financed/supported? Is it temporary, i.e. more like a one-time project like making a movie or a video game? Or is it, somehow, a 'going concern'?

        The 'going concern' attribute is one that I think is perhaps under-appreciated. One thing that companies, and other long-lived organizations, do well is in organizing people with specific expertise long-term. Think about making a computer, or a washer, or any physical product. Surely the people that make those things, that have done so for an extended period, have a huge amount of detailed knowledge, and wisdom, pertaining to making the specific things they make. What would be lost by them NOT having made the same things for so long? What would our computers, or washers, or pencils, be like if they were all produced by something more like a Kickstarter project?

        Imagine another possible world where the 2013 MacBooks were just as good as in our world, but also intended to last indefinitely, perhaps more easily repairable, or made of more common or standard components somehow. Say they lasted 30 years, easily, before needing to be replaced. How is Apple different in this other world? How do they retain engineers like they do now? How do Apple's competitors do this? And, maybe most importantly, how much do MacBooks cost in this other world?

    • riffraff 6 years ago

      my 2013MBP is still working fine and awesome. But I think 2015MBP is also fine, the keyboard is a little bit thinner but I like it anyway. It's a far cry from the following generations with throw-away keyboards.

  • Nursie 6 years ago

    I am typing this from a late-2013 MBPr. It has been rock solid until Catalina. Now it occasionally reboots while its closed and there's something going on in the system settings that tells me I need to re-log in to some services, then errors out when I click on the button to proceed and do that.

    Not up to quite the usual quality, definitely.

  • Razengan 6 years ago

    > So has my 2013 MBPr at home.

    Which operating system? This isn't about comparing hardware.

    I'm on the latest MBPr and I love it; the problems are coming from Catalina.

    • TheSpiceIsLife 6 years ago

      Sorry, yeah, that's a good point. Now I'm at home I can check: High Sierra.

      I usually only update when I either need to because a program I want to run doesn't support the old OS, or the OS stops receiving security updates, or if I get really bored one night.

josteink 6 years ago

> it’s still randomly losing files

> it is still the better alternative to Windows

I’m not sure what kind of Stockholm-syndrome it takes to put these two sentences in the same post.

This is just crazy.

  • Razengan 6 years ago

    Perhaps this simple illustration of a scale will help?

        BAD ---X-----Y----Z----- GOOD
    

    Given the standard definitions of "better" and "worse", Y needs to regress substantially to put it behind X.

    • josteink 6 years ago

      An operating system needs to guarantee a minimal level of stability before any other metrics even matter.

      Randomly losing files is not at all acceptable and IMO puts it below that minimum. The prettiest font-rendering in the world won’t matter if your documents are gone.

      • Razengan 6 years ago

        A recent major Windows update deleted user documents as well. [0]

        Catalina's file loss was confined to iCloud Drive during the beta, and what happened to me was in the Music app after release.

        I grew up with Windows, and the recent problems with macOS are still not bad enough to make me want to go back to Microsoft.

        macOS is the occasional burn, while Windows is a constant assault on multiple fronts. UI, spyware, performance, security, consistency, aesthetics, accessibility, lack of a multi-platform ecosystem (phone/tablet/TV) and bugs of its own like every other software.

        [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=windows+update+deleted+docum...

    • collyw 6 years ago

      Most users would put "randomly loosing files" pretty far left.

      • Razengan 6 years ago

        Yes, but it depends on the frequency of the issue. If it’s very rare/isolated it can be tolerated. Since release I've only seen it in the iTunes/Music app so far.

        And Windows updates have had that problem as well, so the whole scale just shifts.