20 points by luu
14 days ago
The Southern Poverty Law Center is ideologically committed to certain positions. If you read a poll sponsored by Breitbart, would you inclined to believe it? How about Media Matters?
Stick to organizations that do polling for a living.
> The Southern Poverty Law Center is ideologically committed to certain positions.
Against hate groups, violence and malice directed at people for innate facts about themselves. Not that it makes them a reliable polling organization, but the “ideological” position deserves mention because unfamiliar readers might mistakenly think their ideological position is something more specific and contentious. Their “ideological” position is that nazis and the klan are bad, and that people (figuratively or faithfully) doing nazi/klan cosplay are doing harm. That’s not Mao’s Red Book ideology or even “I heart John Boener” bumper stickers ideology. It’s just “murdering and torturing millions of people for who they are is wrong” ideology, and that matters when you’re calling out bias.
> Breitbart […] Media Matters?
It seems you’re trying to be “inclusive” by dismissing biased hypothetical pollsters, so I’ll grant that. But I will also emphasize this:
> Stick to organizations that do polling for a living.
That’s the only part of your comment that actually matters for digesting polls. Organizations which do polling for a living either produce polling with some meaningful reliability or rapidly develop a reputation for their poor track record. As an example, Fox News. They’re generally understood to be ideologically motivated. I doubt I’ve ever agreed with them on anything ideological, and if I had it’s something I’d really deeply reconsider. But they’re a reliable polling organization, quite a bit more than the organizations you mention.
Slightly modified from the wise Abraham Simpson:
“I used to be a feminist, but then they changed what a feminist was. Now what I am isn't a feminist, and what is a feminist seems weird and scary to me.”
It should come as no surprise that the opinions of young people are changing when what the term covers is changing it’s meaning. It used to be that if a man would not allow his wife to take a job, he was anti feminist. Now if a man doesn’t happily accept his wife supplementing her income through selling on-demand pornography to strangers online then he’s portrayed as being anti feminist.
>if a man doesn’t happily accept his wife supplementing her income through selling on-demand pornography to strangers online then he’s portrayed as being anti feminist.
In my opinion, this is hyperbole. I think a less biased and more realistic version of this complaint is something like "if a man disapproves of women supplementing . . .", as opposed to his wife (and assuming the implied qualifier that his wife didn't already do things like this before marriage).
As always, I'm sure you can find someone out there who embodies your complaint, but it would not be representative of popular accusations of anti-feminism.
Speaking as a man, there is an option on the table that I may be a woman when I die (seems unlikely, but it is there). I know people who've taken that option up, so it isn't even that unusual in my circles. This somewhat changes the nature of the debate. Particularly since now people who genuinely believe that men/women face some sort of entrenched political discrimination, theoretically, switch sides. It wouldn't surprise me if sooner or later there is a scandal of desperate students choosing to be women to gain access to scholarship money for example.
The meaning of "feminism" can't possibly be the same as it was 50 years ago when facing that sort of cultural pressure.
Considering how often and violent prominent feminist authors have been disagreeing for decades about what will or won't advance the broader feminist cause, pretty much everyone feels some sections of feminism are "weird and scary" to them.
This is a big reason I'm not a fan of the magic win-a-debate cheat codes of casually throwing things like "sexism" around, because talk to feminist A and they will tell you "X is sexist! You are sexist!" and then you change your view or behaviour to be the opposite of X and you'll get scolded by feminist B for holding the opposite view!
Pornography is a classic example; to some feminists it's inherently sexist, to others liberating. The sex-positive view is more popular, but hardly the only view out there. Outside of some core issues, there is quite little agreement and consensus. Not surprising people – especially men – have started shrug and stop caring. This, of course, is also sexist according to some.
Wait until you find out what you have to do to keep people from portraying you as a RINO.
Yeah - it seems more strange thing are getting folded into feminism. I cannot really point the exact problem but my wife feels that like the feminism is not anymore about helping women but just one talking point for white and rich Democrat males.
Maybe it is school closing during COVID. Maybe it is all these transgenders in women sports. Maybe it is spending money on bike lines so that white rich man can drive their bikes but moms will small children will suffer. Or talking about random things while abortion is getting banned. Maybe because you cannot be feminist if you do not agree with the entire agenda of Democratic Party (gun control, role of the federal government, smetc.) I do not know.
There is broad overlap between feminists and democrats but you’re conflating issues that affect women — sex positivity, destigmatizing sex work, trying to undo “purity culture”, and fighting for the rights of trans women — and the unrelated issues that many feminists are also involved in because they’re also democrats — the class struggle, public services, social safety nets. It’s hard to untangle those two things because people care a whole heck of a lot about lots of political issues and it’s not too often you see “how about side by side with a friend” happen in real life all that often, especially since abortion rights is such a fundamental feminist issue that neatly divides D/R.
The easiest way to understand this is that for every victory the movement gets to start tackling issues further up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs where the top three are way more nuanced than “equal pay for equal work.”
What even is a feminist? Considering there's TERFs and SWERFs, there is no one agreed upon definition, and if there ever was, it's changing.
Michelle Goldberg has been on this topic for a while and has some issues with confirmation bias.
"Feminism" can mean a lot of different things to different people. Perhaps young people tend to associate feminism with identity politics, which even a lot of progressive people aren't interested in even if they agree with traditional feminist ideas.