Ask HN: Hobbies/Skills which can be picked in 30s and compete at world level?
What are some skills/hobbies you could start in your 30s and there are not many disadvantages to compete at world/regional level?
Many physical things become difficult.
Most of the other things statistically work out when you start as a kid.
What are some sports, creative activities which don't have to be your full time thing but still you could spend years to understand and excel it?
Running comes to the mind, what would be other examples?
Ultra marathon .. it's possible to start at age 56 and be world class by 61 (with some prior outdoor living as a farmer).
eg:
> Albert Ernest Clifford Young OAM (8 February 1922 – 2 November 2003) was an Australian potato farmer from Beech Forest, Victoria.
> He was best known for his unexpected win of the inaugural Sydney to Melbourne Ultramarathon in 1983 at 61 years of age
NB: this is literally an instance in which YMMV . . .
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Young_(athlete)
Gardening, once you have the basics (ie you know how to keep a plant alive, and have developed a good idea of when a plant is happy) then you can create _art_
Blacksmithing (either sword/knife or artistic)
Photography, not physical, and the basics can be learnt with a simple course.
Anything to do with machining/lathes metalwork, the only barrier is cost and time.
Music, Its perfectly possible to learn an instrument and be good, world class is a difficult term though.
General knowledge, paul Sinha was a doctor turned comedian, then pivoted to "quizzer"
Story teller, life experience can be an excellent spring board to creating good narratives
Cuneiform scholar: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ancient-art-civilizat... There are tonnes of tablets yet to be deciphered
Writing is one of the skills that you get better at later in life, because of accumulated experiences broadening the range of situations and interactions your characters are placed into.
If you haven’t done it by the time you’re 30, you can apparently become a world-class archwizard.
And if you do it eight times afterwards, your son can become a sourcerer.
Ken Block, famous rally driver, started his rally career in his late 30s. Yes, he had money, connections and access to the best teams. But you could easily buy a second hand car for a few grand, tune it gradually, do courses and practice, practice, practice. You should carefully choose your speciality: rally, race tracks, drifting or just regional events (where entry can be as low as 100 eur). So your only disadvantage are the expenses. But they aren't as bad as you think they were.
Gentalman Racer is generally open to anyone with tons of money to blow(Ken Block founded DC shoes along with being a successful athlete before moving into motorsports). DHH is a sports car racer, including driving at Le Mans a few times.
"a few grand" won't get you into world class motorsports, but if you also have the space for a garage, trailer, and tow vehicle it is enough to be competitive at the club level. SCCA, NASA, PCA, and BMWCCA have club races all over the US.
Video and music production, game development, stock trading, book writing. You've got every prerequisit by the time you hit 30, you can do anything at a global level.
"Hobby" seems to be in complete opposition to "compete at world level"
One might think that chess would qualify. People become grandmasters in their 20s, with less than 20 years total experience, so surely if you quit your job and focus on only chess from 30 to 50, you can gain enough skill and experience to compete at the world level...
And yet, in practice, almost all chess grandmasters have started young. I don't know of any grandmaster who started playing chess seriously past 30 (and chess.com didn't have any concrete examples that I saw: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/gmsims-who-started-...)
Physical sports are obviously out, as the world level is dominated by people under 30 for all of them.
I'll also comment further on two things you wrote in your original question:
1. "compete at world level" and 2. "don't have to be your full time thing"
In practice, the majority of things that have world competitions will also have people who will devote themselves, body and soul, to it, so if you are intent at not spending all your time on this, not making it your passion, then you should not reasonably expect to "compete at world level".
I think you might do better by classifying "compete at world level" as being very broad, like considering writing a "new york times best seller" to be competing at writing at the world level (in which case, yes, some authors started after 30). If you broaden it to simply "be able to have fun", I think you'll have a far better time of it, and at that point almost any physical activity now becomes something you can start past 30.
I think you're right. It feels like if the problem is phrased as an activity you can become world class in while doing part time without having started before your thirties, you're pretty much restricted to things that are more subjective in their measurements. Arts and crafts have been mentioned. Otherwise the alternative is something of a niche character that there arent really any full time practitioners and the pool of practitioners is fairly small. Maybe something like air rifle shooting or drone racing?
> if you quit your job and focus on only chess from 30 to 50
To add to this, I think most people don't understand how incredibly exhausting, mentally (in the sense of mental strain) and physically, high level chess is. A 40 year old chess player may have enough knowledge and skill to compete, but not enough mental and physical stamina to do so.
I think Vincent van Gogh, started seriously painting in his late 20s. Needless to say in his brief overall career as a painter he made some works which had a great impact in the art scene after his own death.
Most Master Model Railroader awards are granted to people in their 50s and up. It takes time to master the many aspects of the hobby, and an MMR must show breadth of knowledge as well as depth. But because of the initial outlay cost (in time and money and space for a layout) of the hobby, the majority of "world class" modelers don't really get serious about it until they've settled into good-paying jobs and their kids are out of the house.
Woodworking. Where competing means making the most beautiful (for whatever style you want).
I picked up wood working in my late 40's when I was on a soul crushing IT project, and could no longer code recreationally in the evening. Wood working uses a different part of my brain and feels very cathartic. I don't think I'm "world class", but I'm decent and continue to improve.
So over the pandemic, I (in my mid 40's) went through ViBE's B2GM videos [1], and spending a couple of hours a week over six months or so managed to get up to Platinum 3 on the Starcraft 2 ladder; which, if I'm reading the stats right, means that (at that point) I would have been able to beat 50% of the people playing SC2 on the ladder. And there was still a lot of low-hanging fruit for me to deliberately practice when I moved on to some other projects in my precious free time.
Now, you're not going to compete in SC2 with people who practice 10-20 hours a week unless you also practice 10-20 hours a week; but you can certainly get pretty good and have a lot of fun. (Maybe neurological limitations from being older would prevent you from being top-tier even if you did practice 10-20 hours a week; but I'm inclined to believe it's more that older people are less likely to practice 10-20 hours a week for whatever reason.)
[1] https://youtu.be/mfFas8p5g7M
It becomes exponentially harder to climb the ladder. To be "world level" or "top tier" in SC2 it most definitely has to be your main thing and you need to dedicate a significant amount of time to it.
Would not advise OP to pick SC2.
Sure, but is there anything in the world to which that doesn't apply? If OP wants to be "world-tier", he's going to have to put in time commensurate with other "world-tier" people, no matter what he's doing.
Amateur radio (in particular "Contesting").
I second this. Amateur radio is an amazing hobby where you learn lots about electronics, (virtually and - if you like- physically) meet lots on new people and gain lots of knowledge on our planet, its countries and their people. You can participate in contests and compete with others many times a year and all this from home - if you are lucky enough to be able to put up antennas.
I amazes me evertime over and over again to have a conversation with someone living 10000km away from me without having to rely on other peoples/companies infrastructure. Especially when you are able to power your station with solar energy.
I've picked up this hobby with 40 and the only thing I regret is not having it picked up earlier. Also a great hobby for parents since you can operate from home at night times when everybody else is asleep.
Interesting. You may have inspired me to give it a go.
So where the hell do I start? Any recommendations for a beginner?
I'm in the UK if it makes a difference.
I myself did not know any amateur radio operator but read about it on the internet. I then did some research on what is needed to get on air - which is a license. Without a license, you can buy gear and listen to the airwaves (but are not allowed to press the PTT button) or listen to shortwave communications via WebSDR. Some people visit local amateur radio clubs, learn stuff there and get help. I went the following route:
* I decided that I want to get the beginner license first, then do a second exam for the big license
* bought some books for exam preparation
* bought a cheap 30€ handheld radio to listen to local repeater traffic while studying
* downloaded an exam preparation training tool
* worked through the material halfway through
* have registered for an exam
* stood up every morning at 5 and learned 2h before the family woke up for two months
* did the exam, got the beginner license
* studied another two months
* got the big license
* met other amateur radio operators a year after that ;)
Here are some links:
* this is the site of your country's club: https://rsgb.org/main/clubs/club-finder/
* the amateur radio subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/
There is so much more to write and I don't know where to start, but here are some fun facts:
* you don't have to learn morse code anymore for the license in most countries
* for local communicaiton, a budget of 30-100€ is sufficient
* for world wide shortwave communication, a budget of 400 to 700 can be sufficient when buying used
* you can do digi modes (computer to computer communication) instead of talking to people. This helped me the first year to get into it since i was mic shy.
* the community is awesome, people share their knowledge and help each other
* you can buy a digital handheld radio for around 200€ and work the world without any antennas over the internet. For some not the real thing, for others a blast.
Start at https://rsgb.org/main/get-started-in-amateur-radio/
Basically you need to take a course, take a test, and then you can get started.
Your local chapter will organise a reach out event once a year or so, that is a good opportunity to get started. There might also be fares.
The way radio contesting requires you to collaborate with your competitors is fascinating to me. Both stations my struggle to pull their competitor out of the noise because you both get points or a new multiple for doing so. Then there is no out of band way to verify logs, they just have to line up with what's in your competitor's logs.
And if you dig around the rules there are _lots_ of awards. e.g. I was the highest scoring QRP station in the Illinois QSO Party a few years ago.
Start your hobby at http://www.arrl.org/. The American Radio Relay League, if you are in North America. Every other country will also have a National Amateur Radio Association. Except north korea…
Running ultra-marathons is what comes to my mind also, because this is a rare kind of activities where age is at your side. No 14-years-old can run 100km a day without requiring a medical help, because of kinda another structure of muscles.
To tell the truth, if you have not picked some skill which you are going to be a world level of, in your 10s, then there is no hope you will do it in 30s. Your question is awesome to see how little of people (even such brilliant ones as HN crowd) can see this obvious thing.
Reading comments is so funny, everybody has their confirmation bias. For example, from my PoV the easiest stuff you can do is metal cutting/wood turning. Just buy a lathe, solve that safety issues for your eyes and fingers (this is the hardest part, no jokes), read few tens of books on metals, than work few years with a more and more competitive master - volia, you are a world-class metal cutter... Then I remembered, that not every child use to have the skills I have.
If you have not hammered a few thousand nails in your childhood than you need to hammer tens of thousand in adult age just to achieve my level of hammering. Obviously to hammer a thousand nails in childhood is in extreme way simpler than to hammer ten thousand nails in 30s. Another example of sad trend of being older is just a reading books. If you don't use to read books in your childhood, there is no way you will start it in your 30s, having such issues as: bad eyes, hard work, big house to take care of, demanding spouse, growing kids, and of course - lost ability to enjoy reading.
OK, while writing this comment, I realized what is the best answer to your question. This is aging. Any 30-yo (who has not done too danger things for longevity like drinking too much of alcohol or having a contact with too danger chemicals) can pretend to compete at a world level about who will have a longer life. I am really convinced that a significant amount of today's 30-years-olds from HN crowd will live to 100 yo, which is a world-level competition from all points of view.
> Aging
I started kayaking this year.
It’s good on the joints, and my first motivation to train upper body strength.
The world champion is in his early twenties and rows twice as fast as me. But 8 of 10 people at the club who row the farthest every year are 65-75 years old. (There are some late-40s men, too.)
My goal is to beat 70 year olds at kayaking, i.e. aging well. It takes decades of kayaking every day to get their health. Probably another couple of years before I beat them on speed!
I understand exactly what OP means and I've been looking for something like this too.
When it comes to sports I think it needs to be something with lower physical bar such as table tennis, archery, shooting. Unlikely you can compete on world level but at least locally.
For other things I think certain computer games might do but you will be competing with kids that play 12 hours every day so again you can only compete on small scale and in my experience online competitive games attract the most toxic people. You can try Geoguessr which I think is your best option.
Then you have the more arty skills such as stand-up comedy, music production, cooking all can be competitive if you are into any of these and your age shouldn't matter much in fact it might help.
I've been playing foosball competitively since I was around 14-15, and what I can say is that it's easy to pick up, can be done at 60 ( Todd Loffredo is around that and still in the elite ).
It's a weird thing, it looks physical and it seems like you need fast reflexes to do it on the highest level but it's not true. The technique can be picked up in ~2 years with 2 hours of daily practice. What you need and what is hard to get is a calm mind and good decision making which could take a long time to get right, but some people are just born with that. You can easily start in your 30s and be at the highest level, or even be a world champion ( I've seen a few people starting in their 20s and get to that ).
Compete wouldn't be the right word but there have been people starting art later in life that are world class.
Bjj tournaments have age brackets. Check the IBJJF worlds masters. If you win your bracket you do technically get the titles of world champ.
“fight like an old man, you will be one some day”
BJJ also has a culture of action and community. OP, look for that. Where are people +30 getting together)
As OP mentioned "running". As someone who started running in his 30ies:
Before you start running, learn warm up. And take it seriously. It's the most important part of running.
Your knees in your 40ies will thank you for it. (My knees don't.)
Quite a few (if any), I'm afraid. So few that I would not suggest any reasonable examples. Performance in the majority of human activities is rapidly getting so upscale that you need both to be exceptionally gifted (both mentally and physically) and begin no later than other competitors in the field. Also, two issues come to my mind: 1) Why do you need to compete at the world level? and 2) It's somewhat worrying if one is in 30s and still looking for their hobbies/skills to pick.
How is that worrying?
Pumpkin-growing competition. Competitive dog agility racing. Perler bead art. Woodworking. Professional merkin construction. The list of possibilities is longer than the list of impossibilities.
Bouldering - On lower levels, bouldering is easy, and you can make progress using only physical strength until you reach a plateau that requires you to learn technique. At some levels, you don't even need much strength to begin. Competing is possible with enough practice and fine-tuning of your technique after a couple of years.
In addition, you meet new people by discussing solutions to problems (routes on the wall), which is a major benefit for people in their 30s.
> picked up in 30s and compete at world level
I don't think there's a single person who has competed in the bouldering world cup or olympics over 30, let alone who _started_ over 30.
Every boulderer at a world level started in their teens at least.
I welcome you to provide me a single counter example of someone who has qualified (not even won, just qualified) for a bouldering world cup who started climbing at 30.
Perhaps not possible at a world level, but it's at least possible at a regional level (Depending on where you live).
0 Chance of competing at a world level if you start climbing/bouldering in your 30s (unless you're already an athlete of some kind). The training and competition in climbing is insane now compared to when I started in the early 90s.
I guess the more niche the sport, the better and it would be better if you already have a background in something similar. E.g. good surfers turn to hyrdofoiling, kite surfing, SUP, kayaking etc.
I had a colleague many jobs ago who’d made a bet with a friend that they could qualify for the Olympics. Didn’t specify what sport, or for what country, just that they’d qualify.
He then went and did a bunch of research into what sports are most (and of course least) competitive, landing on fencing as the best candidate. He also took advantage of being eligible for Irish citizenship, where the pool of potential competitors is smaller. I don’t know if he ever made it to the Olympics, but he was definitely heading in that direction.
Bruce Dickinson (Iron Maiden singer) famously was a top level fencer as well as a commercial pilot and numerous other things, now a throat cancer survivor and still a top level singer in his mid 60s. I saw him 30 years ago and again this year and I think he was better this year!
My friend represented Uganda in the World Freestyle Kayaking Championships this year. He's English but has lived there for some time and as long as you've never represented your own country you can do this according to ICF rules.
World-class fencers peak in their 30's; they don't start then. (they probably started ~10)
> I guess the more niche the sport
Maybe highlining?
The more niche the sport and the easier recovery requirements the better.
I'd question the likelyhood of a person being able to compete at a world level if they start in their 30s. However, they might experience almost lifelong improvement rather than peaking in their 30s and be able to climb a wide range of grades but I don't expect to see them competing in Innsbruck.
A lot of art is like that. Or pick one of tabletop games - kind of warhammer or something like that. Less popular video games have the same property too.
Historical European Martial Arts.
At least for rapier and sabre, many people start late in the 30s and can compete pretty well internationally (see https://hemaratings.com/)
Same with sword and buckler, Though I believe longsword and armored fighting needs more athleticism than other arts.
Feel free to see if you have a club nearby.
A lot of sports have competitions for "masters" only which is typically 40+ years old
So you could learn to sail in your 30s, spend 10 years getting good (need plenty of time on the water and coaching) and then enter the masters.
Sailing is a sport where you need lots of time on the water, coaching and some luck.
But a lot of people drop out of it in the 20s and 30s due to families and work.
Coffee brewing. Both pour over and classical barista world championships are possible once you win your nationals. I know someone who came 2nd in higly competitive nationals in my country and the person has a different full time job. It is a very deep skill with a lot of science behind it, if you wish, and not fully explored yet.
Shooting and gun sports. Lots of regional skeet and trap shooters. Lots of long range riflery and indoor pistol competitions.
FPL: https://fantasy.premierleague.com/ (or similar fantasy for the sports you follow). It is a numbers and intuition game. You have a real shot at becoming #1. It's Carlsen's favorite pastime.
Architecture, boat building.
Yoga
You learn something new about yourself every day. And you excel again and again only to learn that there is more to learn.
Changes how you think, live and breath.
Plus you look awesome after some time.
Yoyo / kendama
Although I'm of the opinion they're more fun as an activity than to do competitively.. but for many that's the fun part.
Famous art collectors tend to be old (and rich).
Paramotoring. Bear in mind that elite-level competition is considerably more dangerous than paramotoring as a leisure activity.
Mountain biking, depending on where you live.
I second this. My friend picked it up in his late 40s and is competing at the regional level.
Paragliding. Physically not too difficult. It is more a mental game - chess in the sky.
Somebody also suggested paramotoring in another comment, which is less like chess against the sky, but may be more accessible depending on where you live.
However they also warned, and this applies just as much for paragliding, that competiting in this sport is significantly more dangerous than practicing as a hobby.
Dance. There’s lots of dances out there that don’t require the body of a 18 year old to compete and be world class at.
That said - you will never have articles written about you, be interviewed for X, etc. Dance is mostly for enjoyment and socializing. There’s almost no money in the industry as well as compared to running or other hobbies/sports. Most dances are funded by passion - not through capitalism.
Darts.
Programming and Painting
I don't think you can become competitive programmer if you haven't started at young age and went to good math schools and won a few local competitions/olympiads. Learning this at 30 will get you only so far
Shuffleboard?
Cooking.
Skydiving
30 is pretty old
Now listen here young thing, show some respect for your elders!
I'm 30, at this age life is simply mehhhhhhh.
At that age I decided to quit my tech job and live in China for an intensive language program. That opened my eyes to so many other things.
I'm currently working on learning Korean. Also working on my private pilot license. And then there is my constant work towards a sub 3 hour marathon (I'm almost there). Dabbling with music production too.
My 20s were mostly boring, but my 30s are awesome - adventurously and intellectually so. (I'm 36)
Sure, I'll never be world class at anything, but I will constantly challenge myself. That is enough for me.
My 30s were great. People stopped expecting me to grow up¹ and begrudgingly accepted that this is how things are going to be!
----
[1] Or grow up again… I grew up too much in late teens / very early 20s and have been working my way down since.
That's why we should work on research & development of rejuvenation therapies applicable to middle-aged individuals: https://www.fightaging.org/faq
It gets worse.
what do you mean?
You have to live past 30.