points by shagie 3 years ago

> And even for grids where blackouts are infrequent, if your car can serve as large UPS for your house (combined with a large capacitor to keep the power stable), such functionality in the charger may be worth the cost of the hardware for many people. (Bringing the number of units up and hence the cost per unit down over time.)

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-ne...

> Warranty Limitations

> This New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover any vehicle damage or malfunction directly or indirectly caused by, due to or resulting from normal wear or deterioration, abuse, misuse, negligence, accident, improper maintenance, operation, storage or transport, including, but not limited to, any of the following:

> ...

> Using the vehicle as a stationary power source

ben-schaaf 3 years ago

> All model year 2013 and newer Nissan Leafs are approved for use with the FE-15 bidirectional charger, and the automaker states that battery warranties will not be affected.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/12/23349971/nissan-leaf-bidi...

  • shagie 3 years ago

    https://cleantechnica.com/2022/09/09/a-nissan-leaf-can-power...

    > Ideal for companies with fleet vehicles, the Fermata Energy Demand Charge Management application, along with the FE-15 charger, continuously monitors a building’s electrical loads, and may draw on the Nissan LEAF’s energy to provide power to the building during more expensive high-demand periods. In states with utility demand response programs, bi-directional-enabled Nissan LEAF vehicles (MY2013 and later) are able to safely send energy stored in the battery to the grid during peak energy demand times, such as in summer months.”

    > The downsides to V2G tech are that it must degrade your battery (to some extent or another) to be discharging and charging more frequently, and it leaves your battery with less charge at times when you may wish you hadn’t discharged at all. Some people will always take that tradeoff, though, and it is great to simply have an option on the table for consumers who really want V2G tech. Stay tuned and watch this space.

    > The article on the Fermata Energy/Nissan announcement is not quite correct. It’s for commercial use only – not residential. The Nissan-approved FE-15 bidirectional charger is available for commercial and government fleet owners. https://www.fermataenergy.com/fe15-sales

    ---

    The other part is that this is grid supplemental charging where there is already a steady main current to be matched. If you are using it to power an island (home or similar disconnected from the grid), it is a different situation and would require completely disconnecting from the grid with safety cutouts to make sure that when the grid comes back on that the systems are not out of phase and damage equipment.

    Grid storage is a different (and arguably easier) problem than home backup in the case of a blackout.

    • fomine3 3 years ago

      V2H system with grid power outage support is available in Japan for a decade. I don't know what's the blocker in the US.

      • shagie 3 years ago

        The cars need to be designed in a way that facilitates that rate of discharge. Not all electric cars have been.

        There needs to be a specialized charging (and discharging) setup in the garage. People who charge using a regular extension cord without installing additional hardware will not be able to do V2H or V2G.

        The charging setup needs to be able to cut off power from the grid to the home. This involves a more extensive modification to the home's electrical setup. Note that there's a different culture with housing in Japan.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_in_Japan

        > An unusual feature of Japanese housing is that houses are presumed to have a limited lifespan, and are generally torn down and rebuilt after a few decades, generally twenty years for wooden buildings and thirty years for concrete buildings – see regulations for details. Refurbishing properties, rather than rebuilding them, is a relatively uncommon practice in Japan, though its prevalence is increasing, indicating that attitudes towards older houses may be changing.

        > ...

        > The taxable value of a house is controlled by its building material. Wooden houses are considered to have a lifespan of twenty years, and concrete ones to have a lifespan of thirty years, and the assessed price depreciates each year contrary to housing markets in other nations.

        This means that basically every 20 years the house is rebuilt and you've got more recent electrical setup. If you're building/buying a new house in Japan and had an EV, the incremental addition to the cost of building the house isn't significant.

        The house I am living in was built before electricity was available, had gas pipes to each room for lighting (though not in use), and had functioning knob and tube wiring as recently as 2010.

        I do look at a home generator (and the corresponding changes to the electrical wiring needed) - but that's not a small change. If I was getting an EV, and considering V2H as an add on, it would likely not be something I'd do.

foobazgt 3 years ago

V2X (vehicle to grid, home, or load) is pretty new, but there are some vehicles out there with it. Tesla is not one of them. They seem to be more focused on solving storage with powerwall. I don't know where that's good or bad, but I do wish I could use my Tesla to jump another dead EV.