The Metaverse exists. It's called Youtube, Discord, Twitch, and whatever social games are the current center of the zeitgeist. The Metaverse trend was only ever the trend towards people doing their entertainment and socializing online instead of going to physical locations to do it and that is happening with or without peripherals that fully simulate physical immersion.
Another big component of a metaverse (in my mind) is essentially an accessible MMO with creative tools. Spore Galactic Adventures is the oldest example I can think of, but one could argue Fortnite and Minecraft are much closer to that vision.
Chats rooms arent really an interactive space for the output of creative tools like video games are, and I'd argue YouTube and Twitch are "dumb TV portals" if you set their algorithmic sorting and toxic live chat side.
Definitely, game worlds where you build persistent realities is a huge component, it goes beyond fortnite and minecraft to things like Valheim or the latest MMO, but also I think includes the collective experience of less social games like Elden Ring, or whatever the community is centering around. I include Youtube and Twitch because you can see how strong a lot of those communities are and the amount of money that's changing hands there, I think it's an important component. The chat might seem toxic, but there is a very large subculture happening in there and it moves between the in game experiences, youtube clips, chat rooms, and twitch chats. I'd consider them all part of the same ecosystem.
It exists since the early days of interconnected computers, the problem for companies like Meta, is trying to make a multi-million business out of them, with the usually worthless KPI of exponential growth year after year.
So because Meta decides to jump on the AI bandwagon that means they're done with the Metaverse? This does not follow. Meta spent even more on VR shit in 2022 than they did any previous year.
Looking into my crystal ball… I disagree. AI will play a massively important role in his metaverse. If you can’t get people into the metaverse, fill it up with AI.
At the end of the day the "metaverse" will just be a bunch of servers that are keeping track of different application states that are sent to different VR clients. It's basically a VR MMO game (massive multiplayer online). It seems Meta did not see this connection well enough, considering John Carmack left with concerns, and he represents the pinnacle of this effort to take video games into a new domain. The Metaverse will have to leverage all the lessons from video games, or risk reinventing the wheel. On a side note, I'm surprised Epic and MS didn't contribute more to the actual metaverse, since they both have experience making games. I think Epic is probably in the best position to take this forward and Meta could follow (instead of the other way around).
Why would anyone want to take this forward? It’s not a given the meta verse (whatever it was) is a thing people actually want. Mark could be excused for investing in a new platform as a long term hedge for FB - however we’re now seeing heavy competition from things that look nothing like the meta verse.
>It’s not a given the meta verse (whatever it was) is a thing people actually want.
It is, just not Facebook's brand of it. The metaverse people wanted was VR Chat, or something like it. Facebook wanted to make the Metaverse ubiquitous, tame and mundane, but VR's whole draw is escaping mundanity.
I think there is pretty good evidence that as a gaming platform, VR will do well. But I agree that Facebook's original vision that we'd all be sitting around with headsets on all day, working with remote coworkers in this legless dystopia, was dead on arrival and not anything people ever really wanted.
I don't fault Zuckerberg too much for his original push into the Metaverse. He knew that large tech companies without a "platform" often struggle mightily in the long term - I'd argue that the 2 biggest tech giants that are struggling the most right now (Meta and Netflix in my opinion) are struggling precisely because they lack the "platform moat" that Google (Chrome and Android), Apple (iOS), Microsoft (Windows and Azure), and Amazon (FBA/FBM and AWS) all have.
It just turned out, I think, that VR/AR was the wrong bet - I think generative AI will have a much larger direct impact, which is why you see so many companies now scrambling to put a stake in the ground in AI.
It's been proven to work with MMOs. I think people do want rich 3d interactions with other people, it's just about execution and making a virtual world people want to be in. With gamers, that world can be low resolution and the interactions are mouse and keyboard, but in the end most gamers are in it for the social experience of playing with other people. VR can now allow everyone to be as immersed. We basically need a VR MMO that is designed for everyone to find something they find fun and entertaining while also doing it with hundreds or thousands of other people. In other words, an MMO game for non-gamers.
MMOs are a big genre, but they’ve been on the decline for the last 10 years or so.
In the case of FB, the pertinent question is whether 1-3 billion people will spend >20 hours per week in a VR MMO. Anything less doesn’t justify the money spent.
Echo VR was the best thing I’ve experienced in vr. I did a community run web event where competitive players coached us for a week before we played a tournament. It was a blast! The combination of teamwork, spatial voice communication, and the hangout room really created community more than anything else virtual.
Echo (which was all I ended up using my quest 2 for) got me through a cold and dark pandemic winter. Then in the spring, I got back into ultimate frisbee which kinda scratched the same sports / community itch and is much better exercise!
The problem with making a VR layer on top of the Internet is that it's not something you can do alone. It has to be done in a manner that's organic/spontaneous with competitors being allowed to participate on their terms as much as yours (Meta/Facebook in this case). Zuckerberg didn't like this idea so he decided to strike out on his own to have the first mover advantage but such a move as we see can be a failure. Rather than just slowly building up a foundation on the Occulus and forming partnerships with indirect competitors like Sony, he chose to force the issue and just belly flop right into it. Now, it'll take a decade or two before anyone else even tries this effort in a concerted fashion again as too many shareholders with the memory of the last attempt will be there to put a stop to that (for good and ill imo). In the long term, the idea that VR or human-friendly interfaces will dominate the Internet isn't a bad prediction but as I've stated before, it must be done in a slow and careful fashion. You can't force tomorrow to come any sooner than it will and you can't do it alone.
The Metaverse exists. It's called Youtube, Discord, Twitch, and whatever social games are the current center of the zeitgeist. The Metaverse trend was only ever the trend towards people doing their entertainment and socializing online instead of going to physical locations to do it and that is happening with or without peripherals that fully simulate physical immersion.
Another big component of a metaverse (in my mind) is essentially an accessible MMO with creative tools. Spore Galactic Adventures is the oldest example I can think of, but one could argue Fortnite and Minecraft are much closer to that vision.
Chats rooms arent really an interactive space for the output of creative tools like video games are, and I'd argue YouTube and Twitch are "dumb TV portals" if you set their algorithmic sorting and toxic live chat side.
Definitely, game worlds where you build persistent realities is a huge component, it goes beyond fortnite and minecraft to things like Valheim or the latest MMO, but also I think includes the collective experience of less social games like Elden Ring, or whatever the community is centering around. I include Youtube and Twitch because you can see how strong a lot of those communities are and the amount of money that's changing hands there, I think it's an important component. The chat might seem toxic, but there is a very large subculture happening in there and it moves between the in game experiences, youtube clips, chat rooms, and twitch chats. I'd consider them all part of the same ecosystem.
It exists since the early days of interconnected computers, the problem for companies like Meta, is trying to make a multi-million business out of them, with the usually worthless KPI of exponential growth year after year.
So because Meta decides to jump on the AI bandwagon that means they're done with the Metaverse? This does not follow. Meta spent even more on VR shit in 2022 than they did any previous year.
I think a major problem is that people don’t trust Facebook. I think another company could pull it off.
It’s always a bad sign when you feel like you need to completely rename your company.
Looking into my crystal ball… I disagree. AI will play a massively important role in his metaverse. If you can’t get people into the metaverse, fill it up with AI.
At the end of the day the "metaverse" will just be a bunch of servers that are keeping track of different application states that are sent to different VR clients. It's basically a VR MMO game (massive multiplayer online). It seems Meta did not see this connection well enough, considering John Carmack left with concerns, and he represents the pinnacle of this effort to take video games into a new domain. The Metaverse will have to leverage all the lessons from video games, or risk reinventing the wheel. On a side note, I'm surprised Epic and MS didn't contribute more to the actual metaverse, since they both have experience making games. I think Epic is probably in the best position to take this forward and Meta could follow (instead of the other way around).
Why would anyone want to take this forward? It’s not a given the meta verse (whatever it was) is a thing people actually want. Mark could be excused for investing in a new platform as a long term hedge for FB - however we’re now seeing heavy competition from things that look nothing like the meta verse.
>It’s not a given the meta verse (whatever it was) is a thing people actually want.
It is, just not Facebook's brand of it. The metaverse people wanted was VR Chat, or something like it. Facebook wanted to make the Metaverse ubiquitous, tame and mundane, but VR's whole draw is escaping mundanity.
Yeah exactly, VR does have a certain draw, but who'd want to spend it in a sanitised, ad-filled, corporate shithole
> Why would anyone want to take this forward?
I think there is pretty good evidence that as a gaming platform, VR will do well. But I agree that Facebook's original vision that we'd all be sitting around with headsets on all day, working with remote coworkers in this legless dystopia, was dead on arrival and not anything people ever really wanted.
I don't fault Zuckerberg too much for his original push into the Metaverse. He knew that large tech companies without a "platform" often struggle mightily in the long term - I'd argue that the 2 biggest tech giants that are struggling the most right now (Meta and Netflix in my opinion) are struggling precisely because they lack the "platform moat" that Google (Chrome and Android), Apple (iOS), Microsoft (Windows and Azure), and Amazon (FBA/FBM and AWS) all have.
It just turned out, I think, that VR/AR was the wrong bet - I think generative AI will have a much larger direct impact, which is why you see so many companies now scrambling to put a stake in the ground in AI.
Meta actually announced legs are coming to avatars in their multiverse a few months ago. https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/11/meta-announces-legs/
It's been proven to work with MMOs. I think people do want rich 3d interactions with other people, it's just about execution and making a virtual world people want to be in. With gamers, that world can be low resolution and the interactions are mouse and keyboard, but in the end most gamers are in it for the social experience of playing with other people. VR can now allow everyone to be as immersed. We basically need a VR MMO that is designed for everyone to find something they find fun and entertaining while also doing it with hundreds or thousands of other people. In other words, an MMO game for non-gamers.
MMOs are a big genre, but they’ve been on the decline for the last 10 years or so.
In the case of FB, the pertinent question is whether 1-3 billion people will spend >20 hours per week in a VR MMO. Anything less doesn’t justify the money spent.
Zuck's moved on from wanting to build a fake space for real people to wanting to build fake people.
Echo VR was the best thing I’ve experienced in vr. I did a community run web event where competitive players coached us for a week before we played a tournament. It was a blast! The combination of teamwork, spatial voice communication, and the hangout room really created community more than anything else virtual.
Echo (which was all I ended up using my quest 2 for) got me through a cold and dark pandemic winter. Then in the spring, I got back into ultimate frisbee which kinda scratched the same sports / community itch and is much better exercise!
The problem with making a VR layer on top of the Internet is that it's not something you can do alone. It has to be done in a manner that's organic/spontaneous with competitors being allowed to participate on their terms as much as yours (Meta/Facebook in this case). Zuckerberg didn't like this idea so he decided to strike out on his own to have the first mover advantage but such a move as we see can be a failure. Rather than just slowly building up a foundation on the Occulus and forming partnerships with indirect competitors like Sony, he chose to force the issue and just belly flop right into it. Now, it'll take a decade or two before anyone else even tries this effort in a concerted fashion again as too many shareholders with the memory of the last attempt will be there to put a stop to that (for good and ill imo). In the long term, the idea that VR or human-friendly interfaces will dominate the Internet isn't a bad prediction but as I've stated before, it must be done in a slow and careful fashion. You can't force tomorrow to come any sooner than it will and you can't do it alone.
The metaverse and full self driving walk into the sunset together....
Just you wait, next year they'll show you! (LoL)
Sad to hear. It was his best idea. Second only to the plan to run for President with the Lean In lady.
So the next move is to train chat GPT like language model out of the data from whatsapp, facebook and instagram.
Gee, what could go wrong?