I've traveled from the Midwest to Utah on Interstate 80. It was interesting to see all the different kinds of gas stations and truck stops. I stopped at many of them to fuel up and eat.
Iowa 80 boasts claims to be the world's largest truck stop, but nothing in particular sticks out in my mind about that place but big signs and lots of fast food. You could always spot Sapp Bros truck stops miles away from the giant coffee-pot sculptures or neon signs.
Then there is Little America in the southwest corner of Wyoming. Starting about 200+ miles east, you start seeing billboards. Fifty cent ice cream cones! The place to relax! Welcome Home! After seeing what seemed like fifty signs for it, I figured I'd stop, top of my tank and get one of those ice cream cones. It's surprisingly nice for a truck stop with the hotel resembling a small-town New England street complete with well-manicured lawns and park benches.
I can't leave out the truck stops with amusing names like Fat Dog and Stinker. Fat Dog was quite an experience. As I walked in the door thumping dance track was playing on the PA system and the cashier was bopping her head to the beat as she exclaimed "Welcome to Fat Dog!". The dance club vibe was at odds with the joint's unnecessarily bright lights and the garish signage. Having walked in at about 9:00 PM after being on the road for 10-12 hours, I left before my eyes even had time to adjust. I was glad to make my exit!
P-games aren't for me, but I could see how they would appeal after a long and boring day of driving. Little America was really nothing to write home about, but it was a nice respite after a ton of driving. I'd definitely stop there again.
A long time ago in the early 1980's I was making a trip from Four Corners to the SLC area. As it happened I needed gas and a restroom break by the time I found the intersection at Crescent Junction, on I-70/191.
Back in those days it had the appearance of a truck stop/service station where one could have a real mechanic fix any problems the driver might have before they headed out of "town".
I gassed up the old Bronco and headed for the bathroom which was accessible from outside the building like a lot of gas station restrooms back then. Inside, I found pissed-on floors, dirty walls, and a typical poorly cleaned commode with a sink stained with lots of things I didn't need to get in touch with. After finishing everything I washed my hands, carefully dodging the goo on the sink surface and then looked for a place to dry my hands.
I found one of those old-time electric hand dryers, which was certainly better than the recycled hand towel spinner so that was a bonus for that facility.
As I looked for the start button to get the air blowing, I noticed a scribbling in fountain pen from some prior visitor up near the manufacturer instructions.
It said - "Press button for your personalized message from Carter." A later visitor had used a magic marker to scratch through Carter and add Reagan.
This was the first time that I had seen this particular restroom graffiti. Thanks for the reminder.
For real though, little America is probably the least abrasive truck stop.
Although, I personally prefer the little filling stations/general stores you can find away from the interstate in Utah. Or maybe the diner/fuel/casino's that feel like you've stepped out of a time machine in Nevada. Slow paced.
Then you do a road-trip in Italy and get served what would be a Michelin-starred Italian meal back in the US, at some random dingy truck stop, complete with wait staff and white tablecloths.
I haven't road-tripped in other parts of Europe, but Italy easily trounces the Americans in this department...
Maybe it's because Americans don't have any real time off in their lives, I don't know, but I don't find the thought of sitting down to a "fancy dinner" while road-tripping appealing at all.
I've criss-crossed the country a few times, both north-to-south and east-to-west, and I always packed a cooler up with food and ate out of it for the majority of my meals.
Clearly I've failed to communicate what a truck/travel stop roadside meal in Italy is like.
Based on my limited experiences, it's still entirely casual and relatively quick. But the food quality is surprisingly high, and they're not wasting resources on gimmicks beyond the clean white table cloth. There's fresh local mussels on the menu, you can get served wine and beer in real glass. A proper espresso sends you on your way. The whole experience replaces time spent at rest stops with a minimum quality Italians just take for granted. You're treated like an adult human being entitled to a quality freshly made meal, sharp knife, and glassware.
I too rarely eat on the road crossing the USA, because I actually have standards for what I eat. There's nothing but junk food peddled at American travel stops.
This comment has me wanting to tour coastal Italy by car again. But using an EV this iteration so we can spend even more time eating mussels enjoying the scenery while the car recharges...
> I too rarely eat on the road crossing the USA, because I actually have standards for what I eat. There's nothing but junk food peddled at American travel stops.
Keep an eye out for truck stop signs that have Punjabi written on them. There are tons of Punjabi Dhabas catering to truck drivers all over the US. No white table cloths, but it's a quality authentic meal.
You don't have to sit down for three hours at each meal, but you're missing out on a unique lens into America if you don't stop at little local restaurants and diners on your way through.
Some of my favorite travel memories are from them.
Autogrill was the bottom of the barrel ubiquitous chain option on my trip...
Fortunately I was accompanied by a native who knew to skip the Autogrills' food in favor of the random roadside buildings having unpaved yards full of parked trucks we'd later pass. You know, shortly after the overpasses with prostitutes...
On I-15 into Utah I think it was, there are a line of billboards advertising the restrooms at a particular gas station, claiming they're best in the state.
Well, I had to stop, and I will say, they were the fanciest I've ever seen outside of pictures itself. That kind of stuff make a difference when you have something like +/- an hour to choose where to stop.
I drink the largest soda the gas station has in Las Vegas and hold in my pee until I get to Eddie's to go for a high score. (Ghosty Brotato if you see me)
Yes touching the screen is dirty, but we are all washing our hands right after going to the bathroom, right? So I can tolerate the germs for a second or two.
They also have insanely good maintenance at Eddies, I wouldn't be surprised if that glass is getting wiped down every two hours.
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These were never common, but as the article mentions, they were in a few metro stations about 12 years ago. I knew of one Sega arcade with them in Akihabara, but it didn't survive COVID. Haven't seen any in about 3 years.
They were pretty funny, and only based on pressure x time. One game had you playing as a barista filling up coffee decanters as fast as possible. Far-fetched enough that it was just funny. Another game had you playing as weather during a storm, and on the screen was a female weather reporter, with the objective being to blow her skirt higher and higher. Not exactly aging well.
I feel like a lot of people read cyberpunk fiction and didn't realize that it's a dystopia, and tried to make it real because it was fun to read.
Like... people had to make these things. They put a lot of work into them. Someone had to come up with this idea, then they had to prototype it, then actually manufacture it, and install it.... and all the people in that chain resulted in advertisements being fed to you while you pee. That's what all those people spent their time doing.
If you ask any of the people in the supply chain, they'll tell you this kind of thing is stupid and probably shouldn't exist. And yet, it does, while other more pressing things we urgently need don't. The incentives of society are totally backwards. This is a priority inversion, which is the kind of thing that can cause a system to fail.
It started out cute ("Alexa, I need TP!"). Now it's getting dystopian while still having a cute outer shell (tracking your genitals and selling you ads while you urinate... but it's a game!). Soon it's going to get real, and we'll end up in Cube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(1997_film)). No one was having fun in that cyberpunk future.
> I fear the implementation details. Cameras are ~$15 and computer-vision is free. Let’s pray they’re not connected to Wi-Fi.
If it's not now, it will be soon. We need a new Moore's law for privacy. It states that anything that is private now, will be opened up and made public in the future if it can be monetized through advertisements. It starts with your biographical info on Facebook; it moves on to tracking your body through its location, how often it moves, its weight, and now urination in public places (soon there will be a scale under the urinal and they'll know how much you weigh); and it will end at your medical records, financial records, religious records, and even what you do in your bedroom. If the trend continues, if corporations can find a way to make money off of those records and data, it will be monetized and it will become public information when it's (of course) hacked and leaked.
This feels like an archetypal bad product idea I would have worked on in my contractor days.
It's always some dude. Usually they made money doing something else, and they had a (really dumb) idea one day, involving gamifying something, or putting ads somewhere, or both.
If by some miracle they get the right people around them, and don't just waste all their money, they can actually put something on the market. 99% of the time, it goes nowhere, once in a great while it does.
I'm not totally convinced this product will be a success — they are probably just burning runway.
But your overall point is valid, because there will always be some dude who will keep trying this kind of thing until eventually, by statistical oddity, it sticks. Then, it will stay around, and we'll be on to the next fresh hell.
You talk about a Moore's law for privacy. My mental model is more like a ratchet: it takes a some force to advance the mechanism, but once it clicks into place it is locked there forever. There's no going back, only forwards, so you should be extremely careful about anything that pushes you ahead.
> Then, it will stay around, and we'll be on to the next fresh hell.
Yes exactly, and your ratchet analogy works here too. Because in our society, the guy who does end up making a billion dollars on a genital surveillance network is lauded as a genius hero meant to be emulated. His business model will be remixed and rerun by countless others, and will spread to other countries. Once something is shown to work, it will be tried and tried again.
I disagree. We always see cyberpunk dystopia stories from the lowly peasant consumer side, but I bet the people actively building the technology behind the dystopia are having fun. I know I would.
Yeah until it gets you too! That was one of the points of cube; one of the guys building the tech ended up being trapped inside of it. Point being no one is safe from the death machine once society builds it. That means the technologists having along the way.
William Gibson himself has said that he finds it odd when at talks and book signings people come up to him to thank him for inspiring them to pursue a career in technology. What about the futures he imagined where there was no middle class and everybody who wasn't super rich were criminals trying to get some of the wealth from the super rich made people think "yes, that's what I want to be a part of"?
I think it's because prior to that, their imagined future had only the super rich and the super poor, and the super poor had no agency whatsoever. Cyberpunk showed a path via which an average person could at least eke out _some_ sort of life in the dystopian hellscape.
Story time: I went to a small and pretty nerdy tech school (WPI), and there was an IRC channel at the time. One day I noticed that there were messages coming from a user named, IIRC, "compooper". Later I learned while visiting one of the regulars' student housing that they had an upstairs bathroom with an old vt-100 or somesuch wired to it. Not quite the same but got a laugh out of me :-)
Nobody wants to steal something which the market is saturated with already which is not only free, but sometimes seeks you out. (If you're a lady with a cell phone)
I was having a talk with some friends and we were talking about penises and vaginas, particularly the different kinds. We googled pictures of penises and I’m sure I saw more penises that day than I had in my life previously. We then googled pictures of vaginas and … did not get vaginas. It was kind of a bummer because one of the women in the conversation was trying to explain something and no one wanted her to pull down her pants.
Many years ago, on the Womens' International Fight Day, the Goethe Institute in Copenhagen set up a specialized photo booth just for this sort of thing and the pictures are online. You'll find some more info if you search its Danish name, "Kussomaten".
I'm friends with a woman who's part of this discord group which is a bunch of other women who share unsolicited dick pics from other known discord users and gamers around and they all make fun of them
After you play pee games, wash your hands, and buy something from their overwhelming collection of candies and nuts, you can visit the site of the first Del Taco restaurant a mile away:
There’s a lot of weird stuff between Vegas and CA! The weirdest one is an abandoned Nuclear bunker which I believe was built by AT&T 30ish years ago off Razor Road. Eddie World is up there too, something tells me not to trust a giant ice cream cone in the middle of nowhere :)
I sympathize with the article's criticism of all those things it mentioned but someone's gotta like it (gas stations, cigarettes, junk food, bible versus, lawyers, etc), otherwise it wouldn't be everywhere, and probably a whole lot of someones, perhaps even the majority of people.
A tangent, but what i still can't believe is that at gas stations like WaWa or Royal Farms that have made-to-order food inside, why can't you order the food at the screen on the pump (and pay for it!), to pick it up inside after you're done pumping? I keep expecting this to be a thing, haven't seen it yet.
My guess is they want people to leave the pump and park elsewhere in the lot before getting food, to free up the pump for somebody else buying gas. For many people, ordering food is painfully slow and indecisive affair so it probably makes sense to move it away from the pumps.
Possibly yes, possibly no. It depends a lot on the margins. I wouldn't be surprised if food is a loss leader to get you in the door to make other higher-margin impulse purchases. In that case, letting you order food at the pump is an anti-goal because you'll complete the transaction before you're surrounded by other impulse buys.
It isn’t like that at Wawa. The reason they don’t take your food order from the gas station screen is because presumably they would have to serve you at the gas pump, which is not something they will do. You can just use the app to order if you want.
They also won’t bring your online/app order to the gas pump, you have to be parked in a regular spot.
There’s also the concern of updating the menu on the gas pump which (for Wawa) is a non-trivial problem.
In the case of the toilet games, I would expect the real goal is to (subtly) induce men to pay attention while they urinate, to prevent what is referred to in radonc as a "geometric miss".
"otherwise it wouldn't be everywhere" is not reasoning that holds up in practice. Startups pitch investors a compelling argument for why they're going to be the next big thing, then spend millions (or billions) on scaling up and out in order to prepare for the inevitable hockeystick growth that is going to ensue.
So we may just be seeing some point in the "spend and grow" phase of the startup that precedes it collapsing when it turns out nobody actually wants to play video games at a urinal.
I respectfully disagree, I don't believe the literary quality matches someone who graduated from one of Canada's top business schools with really good grades.
Unreal. Cameras in bathrooms are generally a no-no. Wouldn't this require consent from the user? Seems ripe for [legal] trouble, though the whole concept might be amusing to many.
If data or data derived from it is not stored or sent elsewhere, do you need consent? It would be like asking consent for installing a mirror.
Anyways, it seems like it actually works using a heat detecting infrared sensor, presumably similar to motion detectors used in alarm systems and automatic light switches rather than a camera.
Leave it to the British to find a clever way to take the piss out of you. Just imagine the sit down toilet analog of this, timing your bowl movements to drop bombs out of planes. Explosive diarrhea? Extra points! At least you can feel good about that.
The piece is pretty hard to read; it is a little histrionic. I am guessing it's AI generated.
Also I am not sure how this bathroom is "cyberpunk" by having some screens in it. There's an Applebees here that has TVs in front of urinals. Cyberpunk is a genre of science fiction that is usually characterized by futuristic and dystopian elements. It also uses those elements to create a pessimistic satire of current society. This bathroom is neither futuristic nor dystopian, just trashy and kind of dumb.
> The piece is pretty hard to read; it is a little histrionic. I am guessing it's AI generated.
This essay was crafted by 100% organic free-range meat.
But glad to know I don't pass the Turing Test :)
Feel free to shoot me an email at hello@taylor.town with any writing suggestions you have!
> Cyberpunk is a genre of science fiction that is usually characterized by futuristic and dystopian elements.
I'm still growing as a writer, but I personally see urinal touchscreens and a magnificent highway interstate system laden with ads as exceedingly "dystopian" and "futuristic". I tried to convey that feeling, but may have missed the mark. The only reason I didn't have to write satirical fiction is that it's already here.
I once took an overnight bus trip from LA to Las Vegas. The bus must have left LA around 4am. We stopped at Eddie World somewhere around 6. It was a real experience waking up and being greeted by that place. It felt like an acid trip. I don't remember any games that I controlled with my dick, though.
I find the irony here quite amusing: While we usually marvel at the cyberpunk dystopia laid out on paper/screen in front of our eyes, the characters in the story typically never stop to question any of it. They take the world they live in completely for granted, making it clear to us, the reader/viewer, that they don't know any different, adding to the extend of the dystopia on display.
And here we are discussing a toilet that probably films you piss, analyzes the data and uses it as input for a video game, all using a built-in computer and display mounted on top. A touch screen no less, because the team involved in developing this, despite probably countless meetings, never even gave a second though towards hygiene, I guess.
A marvel of technology that I could imagine the likes of Neal Stephenson describing in loving detail over at least two pages, describing how the data is hauled off to some remote machine in a data center, collecting statistics of no use to anyone, from hundreds of such installations, all secured only by a couple default passwords.
The cyberurinals coupled with the bleak sculpture garden[0] outside Eddie's truly do make for a great Stephenson aside, come to life. It's only missing Gibson's combat hovercraft tanks parked by the statues, instead of Ford Raptors.
They should remove the word "punk". There's no punk here. It's just a cyber bathroom. They could get someone to egg the joint, and then they would have a cyber bathroom punk, but still not cyberpunk.
The blue light flickers to green, showing I've eaten below my regulation level of fat and sugar. Thank fuck for that, I can't take another visit from the Doctors. The last examination hurt so much I couldn't sleep.
I hear the dusty modem connect to the Authority's servers, where it sends my data and calculates the price of my piss. It seems it's a good one today - it's given me enough credits to buy a shot of orange juice. Must be Chloe's cooking.
The goons take the guy in the cubicle next to me. Too much nicotine.
Seems I pissed slower than usual today as I'm seeing the prostate transplant advert. I remind myself to drink more water.
Personally I'm not a fan of this term "Neonliberal" because neon lighting doesn't really have anything to do with cyberpunk. The neon lighting aesthetic is a retro 80s thing, only indirectly related to the cyberpunk genre by way of dated cyberpunk media from the 80s. Cyberpunk media made today shouldn't feature neon lighting, it should have LED lighting. Focus on neon is missing the point of cyberpunk, it reduces cyberpunk to little more than a retro aesthetic.
We're currently between coherent future aesthetics in our society. The "Apple store minimalism" trend is in decline, and there isn't really a good candidate to take its place. Ironically, this leads to people going retro for their futurism. Personally, I'm holding out for a Art Deco revival, but the 80's neon definitely has its charms.
Neon aesthetics were appropriate in these because of technological context in which these were created. Neon signage was not yet an anachronism in the 80s. I don't blame sci-fi writers of the past for failing to predict future technology, but at the same time I find it hard to take deliberately anachronistic sci-fi seriously.
It's analogous to the difference between genuine Victorian science fiction (e.g. Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, etc) and modern steampunk media set in the Victorian era. Modern steampunk emulates the style and feel of Victorian science fiction, but I think that makes it a different genre. Victorian science fiction wasn't written to be anachronistic but steampunk is, so they're different genres.
> Cyberpunk 2077
I haven't played it so I can't really judge it, but I can say that what little I've seen hasn't gotten me excited.
The way Cyberpunk 2077 adapted Cyberpunk 2020 made me realize that we've moved the near future 50 years farther off, but we're still stuck in the same futurism fantasy of the 70s/80s.
...
I guess I knew that already, but this made me realize it in a new way :)
While the objects on their own aren't exactly "cyberpunk," they are very much a digital-dystopia kind of thing. A seemingly innocuous use of tech that could very easily be used to shatter the privacy of any individuals that come into proximity of it.
I hadn't even thought about the privacy implications. My first thought was "All I want to do is empty my bladder and the people hogging the urinals are moving slow because they're playing games."
"Let’s pray they’re not connected to Wi-Fi."
After getting out of the bathroom, Bob noticed he was being served a noticeable amount of ads for male enhancement.
These games exist to lower the cost of cleaning. By motivating you to piss accurately, you spill less, meaning cleaning is quicker and can be done less frequently.
I knew it! For ages I speculated that those blinking red lights on auto flushing urinals were part of a camera system taking pictures of men's junk for an FBI database. In fact, that was probably how they obtained the evidence they used against Michael Jackson in his child abuse case.
For better or worse, we've been living in the future, and it will probably get worse.
I was hoping someone on this thread would address the issue of weather the games are effective or not. I am thinking the intention was to keep everything inside the urinal.
I've traveled from the Midwest to Utah on Interstate 80. It was interesting to see all the different kinds of gas stations and truck stops. I stopped at many of them to fuel up and eat.
Iowa 80 boasts claims to be the world's largest truck stop, but nothing in particular sticks out in my mind about that place but big signs and lots of fast food. You could always spot Sapp Bros truck stops miles away from the giant coffee-pot sculptures or neon signs.
Then there is Little America in the southwest corner of Wyoming. Starting about 200+ miles east, you start seeing billboards. Fifty cent ice cream cones! The place to relax! Welcome Home! After seeing what seemed like fifty signs for it, I figured I'd stop, top of my tank and get one of those ice cream cones. It's surprisingly nice for a truck stop with the hotel resembling a small-town New England street complete with well-manicured lawns and park benches.
I can't leave out the truck stops with amusing names like Fat Dog and Stinker. Fat Dog was quite an experience. As I walked in the door thumping dance track was playing on the PA system and the cashier was bopping her head to the beat as she exclaimed "Welcome to Fat Dog!". The dance club vibe was at odds with the joint's unnecessarily bright lights and the garish signage. Having walked in at about 9:00 PM after being on the road for 10-12 hours, I left before my eyes even had time to adjust. I was glad to make my exit!
P-games aren't for me, but I could see how they would appeal after a long and boring day of driving. Little America was really nothing to write home about, but it was a nice respite after a ton of driving. I'd definitely stop there again.
A long time ago in the early 1980's I was making a trip from Four Corners to the SLC area. As it happened I needed gas and a restroom break by the time I found the intersection at Crescent Junction, on I-70/191.
Back in those days it had the appearance of a truck stop/service station where one could have a real mechanic fix any problems the driver might have before they headed out of "town".
I gassed up the old Bronco and headed for the bathroom which was accessible from outside the building like a lot of gas station restrooms back then. Inside, I found pissed-on floors, dirty walls, and a typical poorly cleaned commode with a sink stained with lots of things I didn't need to get in touch with. After finishing everything I washed my hands, carefully dodging the goo on the sink surface and then looked for a place to dry my hands.
I found one of those old-time electric hand dryers, which was certainly better than the recycled hand towel spinner so that was a bonus for that facility.
As I looked for the start button to get the air blowing, I noticed a scribbling in fountain pen from some prior visitor up near the manufacturer instructions.
It said - "Press button for your personalized message from Carter." A later visitor had used a magic marker to scratch through Carter and add Reagan.
This was the first time that I had seen this particular restroom graffiti. Thanks for the reminder.
Don't forget; Wall drug or bust.
For real though, little America is probably the least abrasive truck stop.
Although, I personally prefer the little filling stations/general stores you can find away from the interstate in Utah. Or maybe the diner/fuel/casino's that feel like you've stepped out of a time machine in Nevada. Slow paced.
Then you do a road-trip in Italy and get served what would be a Michelin-starred Italian meal back in the US, at some random dingy truck stop, complete with wait staff and white tablecloths.
I haven't road-tripped in other parts of Europe, but Italy easily trounces the Americans in this department...
Maybe it's because Americans don't have any real time off in their lives, I don't know, but I don't find the thought of sitting down to a "fancy dinner" while road-tripping appealing at all.
I've criss-crossed the country a few times, both north-to-south and east-to-west, and I always packed a cooler up with food and ate out of it for the majority of my meals.
Clearly I've failed to communicate what a truck/travel stop roadside meal in Italy is like.
Based on my limited experiences, it's still entirely casual and relatively quick. But the food quality is surprisingly high, and they're not wasting resources on gimmicks beyond the clean white table cloth. There's fresh local mussels on the menu, you can get served wine and beer in real glass. A proper espresso sends you on your way. The whole experience replaces time spent at rest stops with a minimum quality Italians just take for granted. You're treated like an adult human being entitled to a quality freshly made meal, sharp knife, and glassware.
I too rarely eat on the road crossing the USA, because I actually have standards for what I eat. There's nothing but junk food peddled at American travel stops.
This comment has me wanting to tour coastal Italy by car again. But using an EV this iteration so we can spend even more time eating mussels enjoying the scenery while the car recharges...
> I too rarely eat on the road crossing the USA, because I actually have standards for what I eat. There's nothing but junk food peddled at American travel stops.
Keep an eye out for truck stop signs that have Punjabi written on them. There are tons of Punjabi Dhabas catering to truck drivers all over the US. No white table cloths, but it's a quality authentic meal.
You don't have to sit down for three hours at each meal, but you're missing out on a unique lens into America if you don't stop at little local restaurants and diners on your way through.
Some of my favorite travel memories are from them.
OTOH, the very worst food I've ever had was from a motorway food stop in Italy.
Surly slow service, the "chicken" was cold grey reprocessed mash. Completely inedible.
(I think it was Autogrill)
> (I think it was Autogrill)
Autogrill was the bottom of the barrel ubiquitous chain option on my trip...
Fortunately I was accompanied by a native who knew to skip the Autogrills' food in favor of the random roadside buildings having unpaved yards full of parked trucks we'd later pass. You know, shortly after the overpasses with prostitutes...
I've done both. Sometimes a diner, drive-in, or dive is just as good or better than some white cloth service.
On I-15 into Utah I think it was, there are a line of billboards advertising the restrooms at a particular gas station, claiming they're best in the state.
Well, I had to stop, and I will say, they were the fanciest I've ever seen outside of pictures itself. That kind of stuff make a difference when you have something like +/- an hour to choose where to stop.
It's not really though. Where's the dark leather and neon vibe and urban decay elements?
Futuristic: yes. Cyberpunk: no.
I Piss this game all the time.
I drink the largest soda the gas station has in Las Vegas and hold in my pee until I get to Eddie's to go for a high score. (Ghosty Brotato if you see me)
Yes touching the screen is dirty, but we are all washing our hands right after going to the bathroom, right? So I can tolerate the germs for a second or two.
They also have insanely good maintenance at Eddies, I wouldn't be surprised if that glass is getting wiped down every two hours.
Not sure if this is my favorite or least favorite answer ever given HN. I am leaning toward the former
Okay, favorite
Come to my tech conference in SoCal this August!
(Sorry, we won't be offering any pissing games.)
[1] https://outland.sh
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Biometric Data Collection: Our facility collects biometric data from the urinals. This data includes, but is not limited to, images and measurements of your face, hands, and other body parts. This data is collected for the purpose of identifying and tracking individuals who use our facilities.
Privacy: We take your privacy seriously. All biometric data is encrypted and stored securely on our servers. We do not share this data with any third parties, except as required by law.
Use of Data: The biometric data we collect is used solely for the purpose of improving our facilities and services. We may use this data to optimize flow, improve cleanliness, and enhance security.
Retention of Data: Biometric data is retained for a period of time necessary to achieve the purpose for which it was collected. We may retain this data for up to 30 years, after which it is permanently deleted from our servers.
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By using our facilities, you acknowledge that you have read and understand this agreement, and agree to be bound by its terms and conditions. If you do not agree to these terms and conditions, please do not use our facilities."
Some people at MIT media lab were working on similar stuff 20 years ago.
Paper: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/765891.766108
Other info: https://blog.siggraph.org/2021/02/a-look-back-at-past-emergi...
Also notable, Sega Toylets, which I was surprised Yakuza Kiwami 2 didn't make up: https://www.wired.com/2011/01/sega-urinal-games/
These were never common, but as the article mentions, they were in a few metro stations about 12 years ago. I knew of one Sega arcade with them in Akihabara, but it didn't survive COVID. Haven't seen any in about 3 years.
They were pretty funny, and only based on pressure x time. One game had you playing as a barista filling up coffee decanters as fast as possible. Far-fetched enough that it was just funny. Another game had you playing as weather during a storm, and on the screen was a female weather reporter, with the objective being to blow her skirt higher and higher. Not exactly aging well.
I feel like a lot of people read cyberpunk fiction and didn't realize that it's a dystopia, and tried to make it real because it was fun to read.
Like... people had to make these things. They put a lot of work into them. Someone had to come up with this idea, then they had to prototype it, then actually manufacture it, and install it.... and all the people in that chain resulted in advertisements being fed to you while you pee. That's what all those people spent their time doing.
If you ask any of the people in the supply chain, they'll tell you this kind of thing is stupid and probably shouldn't exist. And yet, it does, while other more pressing things we urgently need don't. The incentives of society are totally backwards. This is a priority inversion, which is the kind of thing that can cause a system to fail.
It started out cute ("Alexa, I need TP!"). Now it's getting dystopian while still having a cute outer shell (tracking your genitals and selling you ads while you urinate... but it's a game!). Soon it's going to get real, and we'll end up in Cube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(1997_film)). No one was having fun in that cyberpunk future.
> I fear the implementation details. Cameras are ~$15 and computer-vision is free. Let’s pray they’re not connected to Wi-Fi.
If it's not now, it will be soon. We need a new Moore's law for privacy. It states that anything that is private now, will be opened up and made public in the future if it can be monetized through advertisements. It starts with your biographical info on Facebook; it moves on to tracking your body through its location, how often it moves, its weight, and now urination in public places (soon there will be a scale under the urinal and they'll know how much you weigh); and it will end at your medical records, financial records, religious records, and even what you do in your bedroom. If the trend continues, if corporations can find a way to make money off of those records and data, it will be monetized and it will become public information when it's (of course) hacked and leaked.
This feels like an archetypal bad product idea I would have worked on in my contractor days.
It's always some dude. Usually they made money doing something else, and they had a (really dumb) idea one day, involving gamifying something, or putting ads somewhere, or both.
If by some miracle they get the right people around them, and don't just waste all their money, they can actually put something on the market. 99% of the time, it goes nowhere, once in a great while it does.
I'm not totally convinced this product will be a success — they are probably just burning runway.
But your overall point is valid, because there will always be some dude who will keep trying this kind of thing until eventually, by statistical oddity, it sticks. Then, it will stay around, and we'll be on to the next fresh hell.
You talk about a Moore's law for privacy. My mental model is more like a ratchet: it takes a some force to advance the mechanism, but once it clicks into place it is locked there forever. There's no going back, only forwards, so you should be extremely careful about anything that pushes you ahead.
> Then, it will stay around, and we'll be on to the next fresh hell.
Yes exactly, and your ratchet analogy works here too. Because in our society, the guy who does end up making a billion dollars on a genital surveillance network is lauded as a genius hero meant to be emulated. His business model will be remixed and rerun by countless others, and will spread to other countries. Once something is shown to work, it will be tried and tried again.
> Soon it's going to get real, and we'll end up in Cube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(1997_film)). No one was having fun in that cyberpunk future.
I disagree. We always see cyberpunk dystopia stories from the lowly peasant consumer side, but I bet the people actively building the technology behind the dystopia are having fun. I know I would.
Yeah until it gets you too! That was one of the points of cube; one of the guys building the tech ended up being trapped inside of it. Point being no one is safe from the death machine once society builds it. That means the technologists having along the way.
Yeah, but try to tell this to 3 letter agencies.
> a lot of people read cyberpunk fiction and didn't realize that it's a dystopia
People can be really dense but this is puzzling.
As Cyd Harrell says, "Cyberpunk was a warning, not an instruction manual."
William Gibson himself has said that he finds it odd when at talks and book signings people come up to him to thank him for inspiring them to pursue a career in technology. What about the futures he imagined where there was no middle class and everybody who wasn't super rich were criminals trying to get some of the wealth from the super rich made people think "yes, that's what I want to be a part of"?
I think it's because prior to that, their imagined future had only the super rich and the super poor, and the super poor had no agency whatsoever. Cyberpunk showed a path via which an average person could at least eke out _some_ sort of life in the dystopian hellscape.
Story time: I went to a small and pretty nerdy tech school (WPI), and there was an IRC channel at the time. One day I noticed that there were messages coming from a user named, IIRC, "compooper". Later I learned while visiting one of the regulars' student housing that they had an upstairs bathroom with an old vt-100 or somesuch wired to it. Not quite the same but got a laugh out of me :-)
I'm not too worried about the cameras.
Nobody wants to steal something which the market is saturated with already which is not only free, but sometimes seeks you out. (If you're a lady with a cell phone)
>Nobody wants to steal something which the market is saturated with already
The market is not saturated with authenticity.
I can't imagine the market for authentic pics is all that big. I mean, probably a perfectly respectable size but still.
I'm sure demand goes up and down. Sometimes, really hard spikes in demand, which once satiated goes back down again.
But in all seriousness: Ew.
I was having a talk with some friends and we were talking about penises and vaginas, particularly the different kinds. We googled pictures of penises and I’m sure I saw more penises that day than I had in my life previously. We then googled pictures of vaginas and … did not get vaginas. It was kind of a bummer because one of the women in the conversation was trying to explain something and no one wanted her to pull down her pants.
Many years ago, on the Womens' International Fight Day, the Goethe Institute in Copenhagen set up a specialized photo booth just for this sort of thing and the pictures are online. You'll find some more info if you search its Danish name, "Kussomaten".
Wow, that is super niche. In fact, this comment was one of the top ranked English google results.
If anyone is curious... Here is the link:
http://www.kussomat.dk/kkdkpix.html
It is NSFW.
Image search without much ability to filter or give context is rather limiting for such a task.
A web search for some sort of museum/art related topic would have been more fruitful. Mona, Tasmania or The Great Wall of Vulva are example results.
Your Google is broken. It's very easy to find both of those things.
I should clarify “vaginas without a penis or porn”.
Well, wasn't expecting this sub thread today
I'm friends with a woman who's part of this discord group which is a bunch of other women who share unsolicited dick pics from other known discord users and gamers around and they all make fun of them
"I've dwelt among the humans. Their entire culture is built around their penises. It's funny to say they are small. It's funny to say they are big."
Weirdos will make demand for pictures of celebrities peeing, supply is only limited by the credibility of attribution.
> supply is only limited by the credibility of attribution
Frankly, naughty bits are not terribly attributable. There's quite a lot less variety compared to faces.
It appears it just uses infrared sensors, not cameras.
After you play pee games, wash your hands, and buy something from their overwhelming collection of candies and nuts, you can visit the site of the first Del Taco restaurant a mile away:
https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=184830
There’s a lot of weird stuff between Vegas and CA! The weirdest one is an abandoned Nuclear bunker which I believe was built by AT&T 30ish years ago off Razor Road. Eddie World is up there too, something tells me not to trust a giant ice cream cone in the middle of nowhere :)
You can also find the ruins of an abandoned water park!
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Dolores_Waterpark
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-2NfY45XM
A giant ice cream cone in the desert, no less!
Eddie World has cleanest bathrooms and Tesla supercharging on the way to LV from both Bay Area as well as LA.
It can get crowded on weekends, but it’s a perfect stop off peak.
Wait until you stop by a Buc-ees station. Absolutely enormous, with up to 120 gas pumps and 80 spotless toilets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buc-ee%27s
I sympathize with the article's criticism of all those things it mentioned but someone's gotta like it (gas stations, cigarettes, junk food, bible versus, lawyers, etc), otherwise it wouldn't be everywhere, and probably a whole lot of someones, perhaps even the majority of people.
The appeal of cigs/junkfood/etc is obvious. No one enjoys the autoplaying video ads at the gas pump.
A tangent, but what i still can't believe is that at gas stations like WaWa or Royal Farms that have made-to-order food inside, why can't you order the food at the screen on the pump (and pay for it!), to pick it up inside after you're done pumping? I keep expecting this to be a thing, haven't seen it yet.
My guess is they want people to leave the pump and park elsewhere in the lot before getting food, to free up the pump for somebody else buying gas. For many people, ordering food is painfully slow and indecisive affair so it probably makes sense to move it away from the pumps.
The screen isn't there for your benefit. It's for the ads.
Don't they want to sell me food though?
Possibly yes, possibly no. It depends a lot on the margins. I wouldn't be surprised if food is a loss leader to get you in the door to make other higher-margin impulse purchases. In that case, letting you order food at the pump is an anti-goal because you'll complete the transaction before you're surrounded by other impulse buys.
It isn’t like that at Wawa. The reason they don’t take your food order from the gas station screen is because presumably they would have to serve you at the gas pump, which is not something they will do. You can just use the app to order if you want.
They also won’t bring your online/app order to the gas pump, you have to be parked in a regular spot.
There’s also the concern of updating the menu on the gas pump which (for Wawa) is a non-trivial problem.
This actually seems like a good idea. Show the ad but have a “place order” button on the screen. They’ve already got your credit card information…
Nobody has to like those things, they just have to pay for them.
I might think a gas stations sign is an eyesore, but if it makes me glance at my gas gague and decide to stop, then it's served it's purpose.
In the case of the toilet games, I would expect the real goal is to (subtly) induce men to pay attention while they urinate, to prevent what is referred to in radonc as a "geometric miss".
I actually really enjoy the huge
>ARE YOU GOING TO HELL? FIND OUT AT godsalvation.online!
>CALL RON, AMERICA'S BEST DIVORCE LAWYER!
>etc.
billboards. They make reality seem a lot more authentic, and I'd be sad if they went away.
"otherwise it wouldn't be everywhere" is not reasoning that holds up in practice. Startups pitch investors a compelling argument for why they're going to be the next big thing, then spend millions (or billions) on scaling up and out in order to prepare for the inevitable hockeystick growth that is going to ensue.
So we may just be seeing some point in the "spend and grow" phase of the startup that precedes it collapsing when it turns out nobody actually wants to play video games at a urinal.
> This is a true story. This actually happened.
> Everything in this essay exists.
I can't read this and believe that this article wasn't written by Nathan Fielder.
I respectfully disagree, I don't believe the literary quality matches someone who graduated from one of Canada's top business schools with really good grades.
Author here.
Frankly, I don't believe the literary quality even matches the graffiti scrawled in the stalls of that bathroom.
It would be fitting, there is an episode of Nathan For You where he devises a scheme to advertise a restaurant to a bathroom stall's captive audience.
Unreal. Cameras in bathrooms are generally a no-no. Wouldn't this require consent from the user? Seems ripe for [legal] trouble, though the whole concept might be amusing to many.
If data or data derived from it is not stored or sent elsewhere, do you need consent? It would be like asking consent for installing a mirror.
Anyways, it seems like it actually works using a heat detecting infrared sensor, presumably similar to motion detectors used in alarm systems and automatic light switches rather than a camera.
>heat detecting infrared sensor
ie a (possibly low resolution) IR camera.
I can confirm that only about half of my bathrooms are like this...
Username gloriously checks out
Leave it to the British to find a clever way to take the piss out of you. Just imagine the sit down toilet analog of this, timing your bowl movements to drop bombs out of planes. Explosive diarrhea? Extra points! At least you can feel good about that.
Cluster munitions are prohibited under the Geneva Convention.
The piece is pretty hard to read; it is a little histrionic. I am guessing it's AI generated.
Also I am not sure how this bathroom is "cyberpunk" by having some screens in it. There's an Applebees here that has TVs in front of urinals. Cyberpunk is a genre of science fiction that is usually characterized by futuristic and dystopian elements. It also uses those elements to create a pessimistic satire of current society. This bathroom is neither futuristic nor dystopian, just trashy and kind of dumb.
Author here!
> The piece is pretty hard to read; it is a little histrionic. I am guessing it's AI generated.
This essay was crafted by 100% organic free-range meat.
But glad to know I don't pass the Turing Test :)
Feel free to shoot me an email at hello@taylor.town with any writing suggestions you have!
> Cyberpunk is a genre of science fiction that is usually characterized by futuristic and dystopian elements.
I'm still growing as a writer, but I personally see urinal touchscreens and a magnificent highway interstate system laden with ads as exceedingly "dystopian" and "futuristic". I tried to convey that feeling, but may have missed the mark. The only reason I didn't have to write satirical fiction is that it's already here.
Oh good, I was really hoping for the future where people accuse anyone they don't like for any reason of being a bot.
Crossing it over with pedantic arguments about exactly what does and does not constitute "cyberpunk" is icing on the cake.
Just some constructive criticism, my friend. Now that I think about it, maybe it could even benefit from some AI; that first sentence is baffling.
Accusing someone of being a bot is not "constructive criticism."
You in the matrix broooooo
Hasn't pee-hacking been covered hundreds of times on HN?
I wish I could give this an award.
Two-ish hours from the largest city in the US is not the middle of nowhere. I know people who drive LA-LV on a weekly basis.
Surely the second largest city (after NYC)?
I once took an overnight bus trip from LA to Las Vegas. The bus must have left LA around 4am. We stopped at Eddie World somewhere around 6. It was a real experience waking up and being greeted by that place. It felt like an acid trip. I don't remember any games that I controlled with my dick, though.
What about this qualifies as cyberpunk?
I find the irony here quite amusing: While we usually marvel at the cyberpunk dystopia laid out on paper/screen in front of our eyes, the characters in the story typically never stop to question any of it. They take the world they live in completely for granted, making it clear to us, the reader/viewer, that they don't know any different, adding to the extend of the dystopia on display.
And here we are discussing a toilet that probably films you piss, analyzes the data and uses it as input for a video game, all using a built-in computer and display mounted on top. A touch screen no less, because the team involved in developing this, despite probably countless meetings, never even gave a second though towards hygiene, I guess.
A marvel of technology that I could imagine the likes of Neal Stephenson describing in loving detail over at least two pages, describing how the data is hauled off to some remote machine in a data center, collecting statistics of no use to anyone, from hundreds of such installations, all secured only by a couple default passwords.
And our reaction to this is: So? What off it?
The cyberurinals coupled with the bleak sculpture garden[0] outside Eddie's truly do make for a great Stephenson aside, come to life. It's only missing Gibson's combat hovercraft tanks parked by the statues, instead of Ford Raptors.
0: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9079089,-116.844012,3a,75y,9...
That was not their reaction. They just wanted to know how it qualifies as “cyber punk”.
FWIW - I thought st_goliath went to great lengths to point out how it's "cyber punk".
Agreed, I was merely pointing out what their initial comment was saying.
> I find the irony here quite amusing
No, you are confusing cyber*punk* with boring dystopia.
A large chunk of cyberpunk is "the ramifications of new technologies mashing together in unplanned ways when humans get involved."
Toilets exist, touchscreens exist, cameras exist, and motion tracking exists, but nobody who developed those techs expected this application.
And here I was thinking I was a bearded mid 30's software developer in europe.. :/
They should remove the word "punk". There's no punk here. It's just a cyber bathroom. They could get someone to egg the joint, and then they would have a cyber bathroom punk, but still not cyberpunk.
“Neonliberal”
It’s “cyberpunk” in that it would fit in a world of cyberpunk fiction.
Maybe some punk can hack them as a practical joke.
The blue light flickers to green, showing I've eaten below my regulation level of fat and sugar. Thank fuck for that, I can't take another visit from the Doctors. The last examination hurt so much I couldn't sleep.
I hear the dusty modem connect to the Authority's servers, where it sends my data and calculates the price of my piss. It seems it's a good one today - it's given me enough credits to buy a shot of orange juice. Must be Chloe's cooking.
The goons take the guy in the cubicle next to me. Too much nicotine.
Seems I pissed slower than usual today as I'm seeing the prostate transplant advert. I remind myself to drink more water.
Now it's cyberpunk...
Personally I'm not a fan of this term "Neonliberal" because neon lighting doesn't really have anything to do with cyberpunk. The neon lighting aesthetic is a retro 80s thing, only indirectly related to the cyberpunk genre by way of dated cyberpunk media from the 80s. Cyberpunk media made today shouldn't feature neon lighting, it should have LED lighting. Focus on neon is missing the point of cyberpunk, it reduces cyberpunk to little more than a retro aesthetic.
We're currently between coherent future aesthetics in our society. The "Apple store minimalism" trend is in decline, and there isn't really a good candidate to take its place. Ironically, this leads to people going retro for their futurism. Personally, I'm holding out for a Art Deco revival, but the 80's neon definitely has its charms.
What about Blade Runner, Neuromancer and Cyberpunk 2077?
> What about Blade Runner, Neuromancer
Neon aesthetics were appropriate in these because of technological context in which these were created. Neon signage was not yet an anachronism in the 80s. I don't blame sci-fi writers of the past for failing to predict future technology, but at the same time I find it hard to take deliberately anachronistic sci-fi seriously.
It's analogous to the difference between genuine Victorian science fiction (e.g. Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, etc) and modern steampunk media set in the Victorian era. Modern steampunk emulates the style and feel of Victorian science fiction, but I think that makes it a different genre. Victorian science fiction wasn't written to be anachronistic but steampunk is, so they're different genres.
> Cyberpunk 2077
I haven't played it so I can't really judge it, but I can say that what little I've seen hasn't gotten me excited.
The way Cyberpunk 2077 adapted Cyberpunk 2020 made me realize that we've moved the near future 50 years farther off, but we're still stuck in the same futurism fantasy of the 70s/80s.
...
I guess I knew that already, but this made me realize it in a new way :)
Cyberpunk Edgerunners is quality media and I’m not usually into anime.
[dead]
If for Christmas they get a handsome Santa to hum a Wild Cherry cover while egging the place it would be a chunky hunky cyber bathroom punky funky.
While the objects on their own aren't exactly "cyberpunk," they are very much a digital-dystopia kind of thing. A seemingly innocuous use of tech that could very easily be used to shatter the privacy of any individuals that come into proximity of it.
I hadn't even thought about the privacy implications. My first thought was "All I want to do is empty my bladder and the people hogging the urinals are moving slow because they're playing games."
They may be using IR or ultrasonic sensors to detect the urine streams, but I wouldn't be surprised to find full-on cameras in there.
"Let’s pray they’re not connected to Wi-Fi." After getting out of the bathroom, Bob noticed he was being served a noticeable amount of ads for male enhancement.
Cyberpunk stories often illustrate technology and capitalism taken to absurd extremes.
A good example of this is the coin-operated door handle from Ubik.
[1] https://infovore.org/archives/2015/02/17/joe-chips-problem-w...
Aside from a layer of grime, what's missing from the standard cyber punk formula?
Just a couple blocks away from that new Tesla charging spot, in the old part of Yermo, is the site of the original Del Taco.
Tita's Burger Den https://maps.app.goo.gl/AqY65SgTDcz23yrC9
What if I don't have to go long enough to finish the level? God, that must be annoying!
These games exist to lower the cost of cleaning. By motivating you to piss accurately, you spill less, meaning cleaning is quicker and can be done less frequently.
The cheaper way is to paint a housefly on the urinal. Netherlands showed it vastly improves aim.
I've stopped at Eddie World at least half a dozen times, but I never needed to pee so I've missed out on this. I'll check it out next time.
I knew it! For ages I speculated that those blinking red lights on auto flushing urinals were part of a camera system taking pictures of men's junk for an FBI database. In fact, that was probably how they obtained the evidence they used against Michael Jackson in his child abuse case.
For better or worse, we've been living in the future, and it will probably get worse.
Buc-ee's should pay attention
I drive by that place almost every month; never stopped there though.
If you're in the area, come to my tech conference this August!
[1] https://outland.sh
I pity the janitors that have to clean up after all the action
I was hoping someone on this thread would address the issue of weather the games are effective or not. I am thinking the intention was to keep everything inside the urinal.
you can aim the tank with your pee stream
I knew this had to be about Eddie's World