This isn't newsworthy, it's a proposal for a future trial. I think I speak for everyone here when I say we are much more interested in actual results, if/when those are available.
I’m surprised they were able to run the study so quickly, what with this study protocol only being published in December of last year. Although I may well be confused about the long timelines between things getting done and things making it into print in this field. Do you have a link to the study’s results?
It reads to me like a sane and effective design, and I’d really be curious how it panned out. Maybe the main link can be updated to refer to the completed study.
Citation needed? The study concluded in Sept 2023 but no results were provided. Are results on these studies usually so delayed? Perhaps they didn’t get the expected result?
Calling it here: mslt, to apologize, you should say "I'm sorry, I didn't read far enough to justify my own snark. That's who screwed up here. I apologize to the poster I lashed out at"
The study may have happened since this was first written, but AFAICT the results are still absent, so it's still not newsworthy because there's no real news.
I started using it for my ibs, and I think it really helped to have much less diarhea. It is not the only change though, I also started eating much more meat.
I have a friend with panic disorder. It took me almost ten years to convince her that she was having a vagus nerve reaction (she is now finally incorporating this into her life).
She would eat certain foods and have a panic attack more than a third of the time. Those are the sorts of patterns I notice that other people dismiss (or in this case deny)
The problem with “disorders” like ADHD that affect up to 10% of the population is that it’s really easy to find enough people with some other disorder to convince yourself that certain symptoms apply to a large part of the demographic. I have no doubt that there are ADHD people who are activated by vagus nerve activation (eg, irregular heartbeat or intestinal distress) but I doubt very much that it’s universal.
Can you comment on what foods caused the vagus nerve reaction? I intermittently have panic attacks out of the blue and often while having no noticeable stress. I think it is due to my vagus nerve overacting but I haven’t been able to link it to any behaviour or diet. Any advice on where to look would be appreciated!
What are the kind of food that would induce a panic attack in her? Did she make things better by partially/completely avoiding them or did she add in probiotics/kefir/some other supplementation?
I had six ounces of kefir yesterday and was awake until 3 am. And I had no late afternoon caffeine which is my primary failure mode. Nor chocolate, which is #2. Don’t think the kefir is working for me.
Sometimes drugs/diet changes can result in the opposite of the long term effect for the short term.
To me, it sounds like you basically had a jolt of energy from having a better feeling gut. I suspect over the next few days/weeks your body will renormalize.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have any "work" to double-check that you could know of, and I didn't accuse anyone of jumping to conclusions.
I find the first week brings some gastrointestinal discomfort (but not necessarily pain, just mild bloating) as your gut acclimatizes to the kefir.
Maybe just have some with your breakfast until you adjust to it. Once you can drink it with no discomfort, try some after eating a heavy meal like BBQ or AYCE Chinese food… anecdotally it makes digestion a breeze and can relieve the symptoms of overindulgence.
I used to drink it off and on just for digestive reasons and curiosity. I’d never really paid attention to mood or sleep hygiene related to consumption, one way or the other. I just found it funny that the biggest serving I had from the bottle coincided with my worst insomnia in two weeks. And the worst unexplained case in a couple months.
Missing headline: "A study protocol."
This isn't newsworthy, it's a proposal for a future trial. I think I speak for everyone here when I say we are much more interested in actual results, if/when those are available.
It did actually happen. Maybe read far enough to justify the snark
I’m surprised they were able to run the study so quickly, what with this study protocol only being published in December of last year. Although I may well be confused about the long timelines between things getting done and things making it into print in this field. Do you have a link to the study’s results?
It reads to me like a sane and effective design, and I’d really be curious how it panned out. Maybe the main link can be updated to refer to the completed study.
Citation needed? The study concluded in Sept 2023 but no results were provided. Are results on these studies usually so delayed? Perhaps they didn’t get the expected result?
The study did run and conclude: https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT05155696
Could you tell us what the conclusion was? Because this is the very point of this discussion.
IIUC, the data have been gathered but the results aren't yet published: https://clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT05155696?tab=results
I think we're confused because it's a strange stage for bringing the study to our attention.
A few months isn't a long delay for a paper to be published.
Calling it here: mslt, to apologize, you should say "I'm sorry, I didn't read far enough to justify my own snark. That's who screwed up here. I apologize to the poster I lashed out at"
(not the poster you're chastising) I read for 5-7 minutes because I thought I might be missing it, couldn't find it.
Help an ADHDer out?
Edit: you sure? Now I read the PDF and reviewer comments too...fyi I'm on mobile. Only thing left i can think of that'd hide it.
The study may have happened since this was first written, but AFAICT the results are still absent, so it's still not newsworthy because there's no real news.
what were the conclusions? I skimmed it but did not see any.
Notable highlights from the NIH page:
- The study was registered in 2022, proposed n=70.
- The study completed in late 2023, actual n=81.
- The study results have not been registered with the NIH.
I incorporated kefir intomy regular diet and it really improved my life. I dont use it every day, but on about half of days I do remember to drink it.
What observable positive/negative effects do you have since adding it?
I started using it for my ibs, and I think it really helped to have much less diarhea. It is not the only change though, I also started eating much more meat.
This is very exciting, I was diagnosed as an adult. Excellent post and I really think they are on to something.
Was this trial completed?
I found some other stuff saying it was done on 2023-09-26, but no link to results.
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I have a friend with panic disorder. It took me almost ten years to convince her that she was having a vagus nerve reaction (she is now finally incorporating this into her life).
She would eat certain foods and have a panic attack more than a third of the time. Those are the sorts of patterns I notice that other people dismiss (or in this case deny)
The problem with “disorders” like ADHD that affect up to 10% of the population is that it’s really easy to find enough people with some other disorder to convince yourself that certain symptoms apply to a large part of the demographic. I have no doubt that there are ADHD people who are activated by vagus nerve activation (eg, irregular heartbeat or intestinal distress) but I doubt very much that it’s universal.
Can you comment on what foods caused the vagus nerve reaction? I intermittently have panic attacks out of the blue and often while having no noticeable stress. I think it is due to my vagus nerve overacting but I haven’t been able to link it to any behaviour or diet. Any advice on where to look would be appreciated!
What are the kind of food that would induce a panic attack in her? Did she make things better by partially/completely avoiding them or did she add in probiotics/kefir/some other supplementation?
Wheat before she stopped eating it, and anything that causes gas. Pressure and gurgling would set her right off.
Yup, the second part is true. I thought I'm likely to have ADHD - after I consulted with specialist, nope. Asperger and strong anxiety, but not ADHD.
I don't follow, can you help?
- a generic form of one sentence in the paper is "X could affect Y"
- you can replace X with Z and still form a sentence.
- so the study writers / link sharer are simply farming for HN karma?
> so the study writers / link sharer are simply farming for HN karma?
Only when the reader doesn't feel particularly invested in the topic at hand.
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I had six ounces of kefir yesterday and was awake until 3 am. And I had no late afternoon caffeine which is my primary failure mode. Nor chocolate, which is #2. Don’t think the kefir is working for me.
That may actually mean it’s working.
Sometimes drugs/diet changes can result in the opposite of the long term effect for the short term.
To me, it sounds like you basically had a jolt of energy from having a better feeling gut. I suspect over the next few days/weeks your body will renormalize.
What does this have to do with the article? No one is proposing a single dose of kefir will help someone fall asleep, regardless of ADHD diagnosis.
If you’re going to accuse someone of jumping to conclusions maybe you should double check your own work.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't have any "work" to double-check that you could know of, and I didn't accuse anyone of jumping to conclusions.
I find the first week brings some gastrointestinal discomfort (but not necessarily pain, just mild bloating) as your gut acclimatizes to the kefir.
Maybe just have some with your breakfast until you adjust to it. Once you can drink it with no discomfort, try some after eating a heavy meal like BBQ or AYCE Chinese food… anecdotally it makes digestion a breeze and can relieve the symptoms of overindulgence.
I used to drink it off and on just for digestive reasons and curiosity. I’d never really paid attention to mood or sleep hygiene related to consumption, one way or the other. I just found it funny that the biggest serving I had from the bottle coincided with my worst insomnia in two weeks. And the worst unexplained case in a couple months.