Non-classified information produced by the US government is placed into the public domain automatically.
Presumably, since it is a work-product of the US government, classified information is also technically in the public domain, but is protected by mechanisms other than claiming copyright.
B) used bookstores sell coffee table books for dirt cheap sometimes, check it out if your taste is more flexible
C) wow page 11 bothers me. Why, why, why… the grid is there for a reason!! Just make it line up with the grid, oh my god
EDIT: page 39 is also a really neat tip, for anyone writing a book. TL;DR: format your cover as a variation of your content pages. Might apply to websites and their splash pages, too! Certainly stands in contrast to the current SOP for SV startup splash pages
> C) wow page 11 bothers me. Why, why, why… the grid is there for a reason!! Just make it line up with the grid, oh my god
Make what line up? LOL! I'm sympathetic to the outrage, but happy to note that measuring the world should never cross over to wishing the world fits a unit measurement.
The grid is a ruler, not a form-factor.
The ruler's unit is 1/3 of the stroke width, as explained in the caption on pg. 11.
Why the stroke width? Presumably because it's a constant for the logotype. From the stroke you can build the grid and describe all the other dimensions.
You could choose any multiple for the stroke. So why 3?
While photographing I was trying to get an image perfectly aligned, but couldn't get it done. A friend, who was with me, said his best image was unaligned intended, because it would look just not aligned, even when it was. Since then I don't care anymore if the image is not perfectly aligned, but looks like it is, to the eye.
Thank you for bringing back this memory with your comment!
I went ahead and downloaded the trial version and evaluated it on my terminal and code editor. It's not quite what I wanted, but it really is beautiful. If you are building anything that is 70's retro, it would be perfect.
cops still stealing skateboards? i explained packet switching to my friend today, he got it which was cool -- but on the ebb of the topic i said that without it, the world today would be way, way different. i dunno, i dunno what you expected. i'm 1986, and am continually beside myself. about what's possible, not neccesarily what's implemented.
Yeah, that logo was much too futuristic anyway, it was retired in 1992 and replaced with the old one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_insignia). It probably didn't help that the old logo was associated with the Moon landings, while the most-remembered event from the run of the new logo (introduced in 1975) was the Challenger disaster...
Both the meatball logo and the "worm" logotype now coexist. The former is the primary NASA logo, the "worm" is only for selected uses, mainly launch vehicles such as certain NASA-contracted Falcon 9 missions, and SLS – https://www.space.com/artemis-2-moon-mission-nasa-worm-logo
It's such an incredible flex to have a design system and brand guidelines for a calling card, side of van, oh and here's how to apply logo on a rocket btw.
Love these old design systems and how prescriptive they are.
One of my favorite software developers - Valhalla DSP, who make awesome reverb, delay, and modulation audio plugins - references the NASA design guidelines.
"The idea behind the GUI was to organize the controls in a logical manner, such that their size and display status was an accurate representation of their relative importance. The GUI is also proudly 2D, with the controls being more of an abstraction of knobs and sliders than an ersatz depiction of hardware that doesn’t exist. Futura Demibold was chosen as the font, as it is specified as the control panel font in the NASA usability guidelines, and because it just looks cool. The tooltips area is an effort to incorporate documentation as a design element, in keeping with the minimalist/Swiss School influences."
Valhalla is one of the few audio plugin developers who make plugins that are usable/legible even when the vector interface is zoomed down to its smallest size. Apple could do well to take inspiration from NASA and Valhalla - their redesigned plugin interfaces in Logic Pro X have small regular weight Helvetica, tons of wasted blank space and are unreadable to my not-getting-younger peepers at smaller sizes. I feel like no one in Apple's design department is over 30.
For last 3 years it feels like clothing with worm logo is all around - there are tshirts, hoodies, pretty sure I even noticed socks and backpacks. NASA managed to promote itself quite well and its branding raised to the range of a popculture symbol. Comparable ESA is rather a "quiet" agency and its merchandise exist solely on their site and nowhere else; I wonder if they do have similar document regarding logotype.
---
Since we're talking about space, agencies and logos, a little story: there's POLSA - Polish Space Agency, cause we can into space contrary to popular belief. In 2015 the agency has launched a competition to design its logo and over 400 works were sent. The reward was 10k PLN/ ~2.3k €. Work of renown poster artist was selected, independently from all other works submitted which raised quite a storm here. The director of the organizational office stated that: "none of the designs submitted met the aesthetic requirements for a logo. In addition, despite the fact that close to 400 designs were received, in many cases we had to deal with reproductive work." In the end, in 2021 another logo was made and agency didn't disclosure who was the author and how much this lovely thing cost.
Works submitted: https://joemonster.org/art/35407 - copied from fb page that tried to collect all rejected designs; some are clearly jokes (Bolek and Lolek inside Jetsons' flying car, or coat of arm eagle tail repurposed as rocket) but there are few which were really good
That is really unfortunate that they landed on a logo suspiciously similar to the logo for the game Starfield when there were so many good submissions. Half of the 22 submissions that were rejected look cleaner and more professional than the final version. The controversy seems justified.
Wasilewski's blue triangle design was ridiculed as an unaware call to polandball and few memes spawned here and there.
Personally, I think that the saddest thing is that govt still doesn't have an unified visual identification for all its departments and agencies - old logos are still being all around and digital govt platform sites are different one from another.
There is an old debate that the Russians were the first during the whole race to space (first in orbit, first animal, first human - both died), and were overpassed by the americans at the last leg. Then the Europeans were ahead with a supersonic jet in commercial exploitation, and the Russians beat us this time (by 3 months, with a copy of our own design).
I mean, Neil Armstrong died too, but it hardly seems fair to put it that way...
Also, you missed first spacewalk and that they got the first satellite AND the first human in space, and the first flyby of the moon, and the first images of the far side of the moon, and the first extraterrestrial rover.
I need to develop better impulse control. I was already halfway through filling out the shipping address when I took a deep breath and thought - really? Are you ever gonna seriously read this?
But then again, it does come wrap in space foil...so there's that...
I do too. I went through the exact same series of thoughts (didnt realize the space foil thing you mention) and figured im already fully invested since the form was filled
The other books they offer at https://standardsmanual.com/pages/titles follow a similar pattern but across a variety of domains. Worth a look to see approaches to the NYC Subway map and DC Comics.
my girlfriend bought this for me as a gift and it's one of my favorite things i own
i find the whole concept of brand identity and branding so cool, i love looking at branding guides for whatever reason, and one that includes "the proper way to brand a spaceship or satellite" is high up in cool factor
They want 100+ for a nasa book? Are not nasa publications outside copyrights? This should be availible somewhere as a pdf. Perhaps that is why they added a forward.
I see USD85 or GBP65 for the book. I understand it sounds expensive when you're looking at a mass produced, probably low quality, maybe printed in China book, like one of those $200 or even $400 textbooks.
But $85 for this doesn't feel expensive at all, specially with paper price/availability in the last 5 or so years:
220 pages
129 image plates
9.5 × 11.5"
24.1 × 29.2 cm
CMYK + 5 Pantone® spot colors
Stochastic screen
100 gsm Yupo Original and Perigord Matte 135 gsm papers
Case-bound with two-color silkscreen and soft touch lamination
Individually packaged in static shielding pouch
Printed in Italy
Ive purchased many books containing material that is out of copyright, most recently a compendium of Lovecraft's works. It can be done extreemly cheaply. Such books tend to be of horrible print quality. I would need to see loads more photos, and independant reviews, to even consider dropping 100+ on such a book.
I work in the printing industry currently. A book such as this which has to take into consideration impeccable color accuracy (most likely using a Pantone printing process), high-quality photo printing, hard-covered, and bound to last a long time can absolutely be VERY expensive to produce, especially if they are not being produced at a factory-level scale and are viewed as collectibles.
Why would they need to lay it out? NASA already did that. In any case, it doesn't cost 100 bucks to print a book, that's absurd. The longest Harry Potter books have 700+ pages and they don't cost hundreds.
High-quality PDF Version of the manual (NASA Graphics Standards Manual) if anyone is interested (legally distributed by NASA): https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/nasa_graphic...
Never was the type of person to spend $90 on a look-book/coffee-table book, but bless those who make things like this possible I guess \-_-/
bless you as well for linking this !
> legally distributed by NASA
They're a public agency. Anyone is entitled to "legally" distribute this material.
A few famous whistleblowers might want to disagree with you :P
Non-classified information produced by the US government is placed into the public domain automatically.
Presumably, since it is a work-product of the US government, classified information is also technically in the public domain, but is protected by mechanisms other than claiming copyright.
A) thank you so much!
B) used bookstores sell coffee table books for dirt cheap sometimes, check it out if your taste is more flexible
C) wow page 11 bothers me. Why, why, why… the grid is there for a reason!! Just make it line up with the grid, oh my god
EDIT: page 39 is also a really neat tip, for anyone writing a book. TL;DR: format your cover as a variation of your content pages. Might apply to websites and their splash pages, too! Certainly stands in contrast to the current SOP for SV startup splash pages
> C) wow page 11 bothers me. Why, why, why… the grid is there for a reason!! Just make it line up with the grid, oh my god
Make what line up? LOL! I'm sympathetic to the outrage, but happy to note that measuring the world should never cross over to wishing the world fits a unit measurement.
The grid is a ruler, not a form-factor.
The ruler's unit is 1/3 of the stroke width, as explained in the caption on pg. 11.
Why the stroke width? Presumably because it's a constant for the logotype. From the stroke you can build the grid and describe all the other dimensions.
You could choose any multiple for the stroke. So why 3?
Zero-one-infinity = 3
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_one_infinity_rule
(I'm being glib)
Because it looks right. Because 0 is not enough. 1 just begs for a sub-unit. 2 is merely twice 1. More than 3 is gratuitous.
"Three is the number thou shalt count and the number of the count shall be three..."
Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xOrgLj9lOwk
Aligning fonts on a grid in the way you're suggesting is a common beginner mistake in typography.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overshoot_(typography)
The paragraphs at the top of page 11 explain why the grid is there.
Re: grid: Rules are meant to be broken :)
Visual weight sometimes dictates a slightly less than perfect alignment.
While photographing I was trying to get an image perfectly aligned, but couldn't get it done. A friend, who was with me, said his best image was unaligned intended, because it would look just not aligned, even when it was. Since then I don't care anymore if the image is not perfectly aligned, but looks like it is, to the eye.
Thank you for bringing back this memory with your comment!
For those nostalgic for this era, go give Neil some money for his epic typeface Berkeley Mono. He work(s/ed?) at NASA.
https://berkeleygraphics.com/typefaces/berkeley-mono/
I don't quite follow how the number "0" character in this example image is portrayed: https://cdn.berkeleygraphics.com/static/images/marketing/cod...
In 2 lines it seems to have 3 separate forms?
You can choose which one you want when you download the font package. The "7" character is also available in two different glyphs.
Ah that makes some sense. Thanks!
If you scroll a bit further, you’ll see there are actually 4 forms for the number 0. Of course, I have no idea why.
Different strokes for different folks :)
Wow that’s one of the most beautiful fonts I’ve ever seen but I’m not seeing it in this document is it the actual nasa logo?
They're unrelated, but the typeface is intended to evoke the vibe of computers in that era.
That is a really beautiful font!
I went ahead and downloaded the trial version and evaluated it on my terminal and code editor. It's not quite what I wanted, but it really is beautiful. If you are building anything that is 70's retro, it would be perfect.
compare to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Gothic
https://github.com/adobe-fonts/source-code-pro
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahoma_(typeface)
https://fonts.google.com/specimen/IBM+Plex+Mono
others?
Also to JuliaMono
I'm a big fan of Berkeley Mono, but I don't think Neil ever worked at NASA.
As a Gen Xer, I feel I've been promised the future represented by the logo on this manual, but instead got what we have today... :(
cops still stealing skateboards? i explained packet switching to my friend today, he got it which was cool -- but on the ebb of the topic i said that without it, the world today would be way, way different. i dunno, i dunno what you expected. i'm 1986, and am continually beside myself. about what's possible, not neccesarily what's implemented.
Every astonishing feat of humanity is built on a tower of accreted now mundane technology (with that word meant in the wider sense, not computers).
Yeah, that logo was much too futuristic anyway, it was retired in 1992 and replaced with the old one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_insignia). It probably didn't help that the old logo was associated with the Moon landings, while the most-remembered event from the run of the new logo (introduced in 1975) was the Challenger disaster...
> Yeah, that logo was much too futuristic anyway, it was retired in 1992 and replaced with the old one
It was unretired in 2020 – https://www.nasa.gov/general/the-worm-is-back/
Both the meatball logo and the "worm" logotype now coexist. The former is the primary NASA logo, the "worm" is only for selected uses, mainly launch vehicles such as certain NASA-contracted Falcon 9 missions, and SLS – https://www.space.com/artemis-2-moon-mission-nasa-worm-logo
Related:
NASA Graphics Standards Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14890791 - July 2017 (8 comments)
NASA Graphics Standards Manual (1976) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11356246 - March 2016 (8 comments)
NASA’s 1976 Graphics Standards Manual [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10236380 - Sept 2015 (1 comment)
NASA's 1975 Graphics Standards Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10171018 - Sept 2015 (10 comments)
It's such an incredible flex to have a design system and brand guidelines for a calling card, side of van, oh and here's how to apply logo on a rocket btw.
Love these old design systems and how prescriptive they are.
For sure. May just include rocket mockups now on any client work just to have a very comprehensive branding package.
One of my favorite software developers - Valhalla DSP, who make awesome reverb, delay, and modulation audio plugins - references the NASA design guidelines.
https://valhalladsp.com/2011/04/26/valhallaroom-an-overview/
"The idea behind the GUI was to organize the controls in a logical manner, such that their size and display status was an accurate representation of their relative importance. The GUI is also proudly 2D, with the controls being more of an abstraction of knobs and sliders than an ersatz depiction of hardware that doesn’t exist. Futura Demibold was chosen as the font, as it is specified as the control panel font in the NASA usability guidelines, and because it just looks cool. The tooltips area is an effort to incorporate documentation as a design element, in keeping with the minimalist/Swiss School influences."
Valhalla is one of the few audio plugin developers who make plugins that are usable/legible even when the vector interface is zoomed down to its smallest size. Apple could do well to take inspiration from NASA and Valhalla - their redesigned plugin interfaces in Logic Pro X have small regular weight Helvetica, tons of wasted blank space and are unreadable to my not-getting-younger peepers at smaller sizes. I feel like no one in Apple's design department is over 30.
For last 3 years it feels like clothing with worm logo is all around - there are tshirts, hoodies, pretty sure I even noticed socks and backpacks. NASA managed to promote itself quite well and its branding raised to the range of a popculture symbol. Comparable ESA is rather a "quiet" agency and its merchandise exist solely on their site and nowhere else; I wonder if they do have similar document regarding logotype.
---
Since we're talking about space, agencies and logos, a little story: there's POLSA - Polish Space Agency, cause we can into space contrary to popular belief. In 2015 the agency has launched a competition to design its logo and over 400 works were sent. The reward was 10k PLN/ ~2.3k €. Work of renown poster artist was selected, independently from all other works submitted which raised quite a storm here. The director of the organizational office stated that: "none of the designs submitted met the aesthetic requirements for a logo. In addition, despite the fact that close to 400 designs were received, in many cases we had to deal with reproductive work." In the end, in 2021 another logo was made and agency didn't disclosure who was the author and how much this lovely thing cost.
Works submitted: https://joemonster.org/art/35407 - copied from fb page that tried to collect all rejected designs; some are clearly jokes (Bolek and Lolek inside Jetsons' flying car, or coat of arm eagle tail repurposed as rocket) but there are few which were really good
Design commissioned and executed by prof. Mieczysław Wasilewski for 15k PLN/ ~3.5k €: https://brandingmonitor.pl/zenujacy-zart-polskiej-agencji-ko...
The final logo: https://www.urania.edu.pl/wiadomosci/polska-agencja-kosmiczn...
That is really unfortunate that they landed on a logo suspiciously similar to the logo for the game Starfield when there were so many good submissions. Half of the 22 submissions that were rejected look cleaner and more professional than the final version. The controversy seems justified.
Wasilewski's blue triangle design was ridiculed as an unaware call to polandball and few memes spawned here and there.
Personally, I think that the saddest thing is that govt still doesn't have an unified visual identification for all its departments and agencies - old logos are still being all around and digital govt platform sites are different one from another.
https://www.gov.pl/web/premier/wspolna-identyfikacja-wizualn... - sadly, in Polish but they are aware since 2022 that unified style is already a thing elsewhere
Lagniappe: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/07/23/tech/nasa-apparel-popular...
for all good things ESA does, NASA was the first on the Moon and that's pretty much anyone needs to know...
There is an old debate that the Russians were the first during the whole race to space (first in orbit, first animal, first human - both died), and were overpassed by the americans at the last leg. Then the Europeans were ahead with a supersonic jet in commercial exploitation, and the Russians beat us this time (by 3 months, with a copy of our own design).
Both died??
I mean, Neil Armstrong died too, but it hardly seems fair to put it that way...
Also, you missed first spacewalk and that they got the first satellite AND the first human in space, and the first flyby of the moon, and the first images of the far side of the moon, and the first extraterrestrial rover.
I need to develop better impulse control. I was already halfway through filling out the shipping address when I took a deep breath and thought - really? Are you ever gonna seriously read this?
But then again, it does come wrap in space foil...so there's that...
I do too. I went through the exact same series of thoughts (didnt realize the space foil thing you mention) and figured im already fully invested since the form was filled
1976 Manual: https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/nasa_graphic...
I love all these NASA standards guides and manuals. One of the best one I still refer to and has been posted here often is their wiring guide.
https://s3vi.ndc.nasa.gov/ssri-kb/static/resources/nasa-std-...
Related: Nixon, NASA, And How The Federal Government Got Design
https://web.archive.org/web/20181005033340/https://www.fastc...
Archive link because the actual page is missing a few images :(
The other books they offer at https://standardsmanual.com/pages/titles follow a similar pattern but across a variety of domains. Worth a look to see approaches to the NYC Subway map and DC Comics.
my girlfriend bought this for me as a gift and it's one of my favorite things i own
i find the whole concept of brand identity and branding so cool, i love looking at branding guides for whatever reason, and one that includes "the proper way to brand a spaceship or satellite" is high up in cool factor
As a Britisher my fondness has always been for this one:
https://britishrailmanual.com/
Starting at £75, it would appear their books (manuals) are almost as pricey as their tickets. Limited demand, I guess.
What you think you'll get when you pay $50k for a branding and design document
FWIW NASA's modern brand standards (including RGB/HEX/CMYK/PMS codes for the brand colors) are at https://www.nasa.gov/nasa-brand-center/brand-guidelines/
Context:
> 1975 National Aeronautics and Space Administration Graphics Standards Manual Reissue. Published by Standards Manual, LLC. 2015.
Ah. The times when designers were actually designers.
I have this in my office. My wife got it for me years back. One of my favorite things to flip through when I need some branding inspiration.
I have this. The silvered bag it comes in is very satisfying.
would be the most interesting coffee table book
I have this book; as a NASA nerd, I love it!
They want 100+ for a nasa book? Are not nasa publications outside copyrights? This should be availible somewhere as a pdf. Perhaps that is why they added a forward.
https://www.nasa.gov/nasa-brand-center/images-and-media/
I see USD85 or GBP65 for the book. I understand it sounds expensive when you're looking at a mass produced, probably low quality, maybe printed in China book, like one of those $200 or even $400 textbooks.
But $85 for this doesn't feel expensive at all, specially with paper price/availability in the last 5 or so years:
Do you have any idea how much it costs to lay out, print, and distribute a 200+ page book?
Hint: somewhere in the region of $100.
Get yourself a PDF if you want. A PDF isn’t a book.
Ive purchased many books containing material that is out of copyright, most recently a compendium of Lovecraft's works. It can be done extreemly cheaply. Such books tend to be of horrible print quality. I would need to see loads more photos, and independant reviews, to even consider dropping 100+ on such a book.
> It can be done extreemly cheaply.
I’m sure they’re beautiful books.
I have a copy of this from the original Kickstarter, and it’s a gorgeous book. Very high quality, very well done.
Me too, I also have the Apollo mission plans they had on Kickstarter. They're soooo nice
To be fair, the book is just a scanned copy of the original spiral bound book.
> Do you have any idea how much it costs to lay out, print, and distribute a 200+ page book?
Are you saying that a vast majority of 200+ page books are sold at a huge loss? Because I've bought many 200+ page books and never paid $100
I work in the printing industry currently. A book such as this which has to take into consideration impeccable color accuracy (most likely using a Pantone printing process), high-quality photo printing, hard-covered, and bound to last a long time can absolutely be VERY expensive to produce, especially if they are not being produced at a factory-level scale and are viewed as collectibles.
Why would they need to lay it out? NASA already did that. In any case, it doesn't cost 100 bucks to print a book, that's absurd. The longest Harry Potter books have 700+ pages and they don't cost hundreds.
A facsimile of a NASA design manual that’s fifty years out of date must be considered a geek’s edition, and the geek’s editions of Harry Potter novels do cost hundreds: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/harry-potter-and-the-prisoner-...