Product manager ex. game designer with a number of puzzle/word game in operation here.
- Having a timer (urgency) is usually not a very good idea for thinky games. If you insist on having a timer consider making it count upwards.
- Additionally as other commenters mentioned is the game is a time trial it needs an explicit “Start” button. Also stop the timer when user is not playing e.g. reading the rules.
- There’s no point of having a “Play again” option for a Wordle style daily game, the thinking part is already done, so any replay is just an exercise in dexterity.
- It’s okay to be US-centric actually, doesn’t matter unless you are very serious about monetizing it, and even then being US-centric will work.
- Consider showing rules for first time users before staring the puzzle.
- Consider having some sort of overarching thing in your puzzle, so it’s not just five words on a specific topic to guess, but something more, like a hidden word across all five etc. This makes a delightful discovery moment and sometimes might work as a clue.
"a timer (urgency) is usually not a very good idea for thinky games" 100% agree. I hate the timer on the NY Times mini puzzle. I like these types of simple games for unwinding, and a timer makes it more stressful.
Contrarily, I love the mini timer, because it’s something to beat. The mini is too easy of a puzzle. The NYT crossword is more for the thinking type - it also has a timer, but its less in your face and I don’t feel the pressure.
I agree - me and several friends had a rolling text convo where we’d share our mini times each day in a fun daily competition.
Has since faded but anytime I think about it I like to load up the puzzle app and do it.
You can still have that with a count up timer (like the GP suggested) but then you don’t put people off like myself who don’t want to be timed out of games
This reminds me a bit of Boggle which really needs a timer. If anything, the timer on this is too long: I did it in 0:32 and was better than 53% of other users, which suggests to me the timer should be about a minute
They do give the option in the settings for this reason but I think that's the best part about the mini specifically, it enables the daily leaderboards to work even for folks who's friend group doesn't sit down and do full Saturday level crosswords regularly. I think the midis/larges are a better balance if you're just looking for relaxing but short solo play and there I wouldn't really mind if the timer was off by default (or not, there is less competition at that point).
The timer makes it competitive. Every day I "compete" with a friend of mine across the country to see who can finish the mini crossword faster. Without that it wouldn't be fun (for me at least). I unwind with the bigger crossword and just ignore the timer at the top.
That’s why I liked the suggestion of a count up timer versus a count down timer. It’s a small difference, but removes immediacy while still allowing competition.
This is really good feedback I think. My puzzle has an overarching thing with down direction also forming words: https://squareword.org/
I think that would not work here as there are though as there are not enough combinations. I quite like this one though, combining the unscramble mechanic with a category. A bit like a combination of connections and waffle.
For the "play again" issue, in my latest game https://spaceword.org I made it an open-ended puzzle, where there is no correct answer, so people can keep improving as long as they want.
You got some fun games! I like your simple direction ui on spaceword. And I enjoyed the time it took to solve square word. It's good to have play again so players can get better. I implemented it on https://wordglyph.xyz for same reasons. It's nice to see players discover the stick strategy over time and get better.
This is 90% of my thoughts as well.
Another note I had is: keep the words to a specific category rather than a broad category.
For example: the today’s puzzle of “professional sports teams” had 4/5 of the teams from the NBA. The 5th answer was either the Detroit “Lions” (a professional _American football_ team) or more likely the London “Lions” (a _British_ professional basketball team).
I live in the EU. I have no idea about US hand-egg teams. As long as these are proper words (e.g. Bucks, Lions) and they are not "rizzz" (or whatever other moronic sound comes out of people with 45 IQ) then people will play the game.
The sound "rizz" is present in the word "charisma".
>There’s no point of having a “Play again” option for a Wordle style daily game, the thinking part is already done, so any replay is just an exercise in dexterity.
What if i'm handing it to a friend/spouse to play to beat my time?
>Consider having some sort of overarching thing in your puzzle, so it’s not just five words on a specific topic to guess, but something more, like a hidden word across all five etc. This makes a delightful discovery moment and sometimes might work as a clue.
That just sounds like your idea for a different type of game. I like his current idea for this game.
>What if i'm handing it to a friend/spouse to play to beat my time?
I generally find it more effective to improve the parts that concern most of the audience, like the timer that is seen by every player. The pass-and-play use case is valid but seems pretty rare.
>That just sounds like your idea for a different type of game. I like his current idea for this game.
Yes, it’s a part of giving feedback, the author might not like any of my comments and is free to ignore them, it’s their game. But why do _you_ seem so irritated about it?
I don't think that commenter is irritated-- they're making gameplay comments just as you are, comments that you too are free to ignore.
Fair enough, I somehow imagined a wrong tone of voice in their message, shouldn’t have done that.
> The pass-and-play use case is valid but seems pretty rare.
The NY Times Mini Crossword specifically has a "Clear" button for this very use-case.
> What if i'm handing it to a friend/spouse to play to beat my time?
then that works better with his suggestion for a timer rather than a countdown
you could retain a challenge aspect by showing average time to solve (or your result compared to others; “You did better than 94% of people!” etc)
> It’s okay to be US-centric actually, doesn’t matter unless you are very serious about monetizing it, and even then being US-centric will work.
As a European who on a typical day uses/watched/reads more English than my native language, I agree. Except sports teams and other more locally phenomena. Those are the worst.
I am from the UK, I hate word games that specialise with US English spelling over than British English.
Getting the answer wrong when trying to spell the correct answer in British English spelling ruins the game.
Nah, it's very annoying to be country-centric. The NYT game clues are just so fucking American sometimes and it's very irritating. It's difficult to avoid this altogether of course, but staying away from sports and politics helps a good bit.
Agree that timers suck the fun out of a game like this. I avoid any solitaire game with a timer for example.
Some crossword people like having their timers (see NYT Games app for example), but as I’ve mentioned the timers are counting up, not triggering any negative conditions, and can be turned off completely.
The OG Windows 3 solitaire has an option to disable the timer, it's one of the first things I uncheck. I did "speedrun" solitaire in my computer classes for fun, though. :)
> - Consider having some sort of overarching thing in your puzzle, so it’s not just five words on a specific topic to guess, but something more, like a hidden word across all five etc. This makes a delightful discovery moment and sometimes might work as a clue.
You've essentially described the Jumble puzzle, which appeared in daily newspapers. It's been around since 1954, but I'm not surprised to see it reinvented since few people get a daily newspaper anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumble
I think the timer exists since there are only so many 5 letter words. And you have just shown players the letters.
You can complete this by just starting words with the letters available of which there are only so many combinations.
Reading comments about a puzzle game coming from a "product manager ex. game designer with a number of puzzle/word game in operation" is one of the main reasons why I come to HN.
The overarching "thing" in the puzzle is a great idea. Choose a column that spells another answer when you get them all right. Works even if you expand the size of the word grid.
I really dislike your suggestion to eliminate the timer. You frame it like it’s objectively the better choice since you’re a professional - however it’s not. It’s a design decision that leads to a sense of urgency that many players enjoy. Games don’t need to be for everyone. This drive towards the most universally appealing, milquetoast design decisions neuters games.
> and even then being US-centric will work.
The world has sadly changed a lot in recent months.
What did I miss, did Trump replace the english language now?
There’s a 40% tariff on the letter ‘u’.
_ser paid 40% to incl_de that letter in this comment.
You mean the American language
Spanish?
Spanglish?
The implication wasn't that people have stopped knowing or using English. The implication was that much of the world, except Russia and her allies, suddenly has a much great deal of resentment toward the US.
English? Did you mean USAlish?
>..you are very serious about monetizing it
Ads aside, I'm curious to know what you think would be a good monetizing strategy for this kind of games (simple, online): subscriptions, sponsorship, donations..?
Unfortunately, I think ads is the most realistic way to go.
Sponsorships and/or donations would be a nice “beer money” bonus.
Subscriptions are PITA and too much hassle unless you’re doing them via some third party and they won’t bring a good amount of money at the “online daily puzzle in a browser” scale.
There are more exotic ways like licensing your puzzles to other sites, like online newspaper puzzle pages, Puzzmo is going in this direction IIRC.
Hi! I'm working on a project that could benefit from that kind of experience. Do you offer consulting services?
Sorry, I don't have capacity for more than a few comments here or a casual chat once in a while.
This is good feedback. Is there a single resource you would recommend for someone somewhat interested in game design?
If you want a general overview try finding a book called “Fundamentals of Fame Design” by Ernest Adams. It is a sensible intro, after that - just dive into thematic communities and do your own things.
I know nothing about formal game design education sorry.
Thanks for sharing! I found it on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Game-Design-Ernest-Adams...
Also, because the keys "F" and "G" are adjacent in the keyboard layout, I believe you made a typo in the book title where you wrote Fame instead of Game.
Yes, sorry about that.
I’d love to learn “fame design” though haha
I thought for a moment it was a really interesting wordplay which I did not understand.
I agree about the timer. I almost quit after 10 seconds because of the timer.
May be making the countdown optional will be better. I like it!
Thank you. I really appreciate product people.
What's the best way to monetize a game like this?
The timer doesn’t matter.
Nobody needs rules for this game.