jelder 2 days ago

What it actually looks like: https://fonts.google.com/specimen/B612

  • ShakataGaNai 2 days ago

    Thank you, that's the one thing I'd expect to be a screenshot in a github repo. Regardless, I don't find it particularly legible. The taller aspect ratio with narrow letter gap actually is not super readable to me?

    Maybe It's "more readable" for plane screen fonts than the other alternatives. It's not fair looking at a font on a 49" highdef ultrawide and saying "This isn't as good".

    • kergonath 2 days ago

      > Thank you, that's the one thing I'd expect to be a screenshot in a github repo.

      Indeed. That’s clearly missing from the readme.

      > Maybe It's "more readable" for plane screen fonts than the other alternatives. It's not fair looking at a font on a 49" highdef ultrawide and saying "This isn't as good".

      Yeah. Their benchmark was suboptimal conditions in an aircraft cockpit. I would assume that they tested drastically different lighting conditions and exotic factors (for a font designed for computers) such as motion, vibration, and crew exhaustion.

    • saltcured 12 hours ago

      It's funny, I see it and immediately feel it has too much spacing on that specimen page. On my laptop screen at its default presentation, it approaches where my brain starts to fixate on dissociated letters instead of words.

      I've also experimented with custom fonts on my (Garmin) watch and found that taller and narrowly spaced characters seem to increase legibility for me. This is for mostly decimal data, and I want to read with very brief glances, in challenging viewing conditions, rather than linger to appreciate the graphemes.

    • cratermoon a day ago

      It's very readable at small sizes. Try 8 point.

      Edit: even better, grab a METAR from your favorite airport and drop it in at 8 point

      • riedel 20 hours ago

        I wonder if the main effect is that it is readable for people with begining presbyopia (like me). It seems that this is a problem particularly for pilots and it can be compensated heavily by optimizing visual processing [0]. I at least have the feeling that the small font could be perfect for packaging as it seems to be better readable with my age related farsightedness and could relieve my struggles shopping.

        [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004269891...

        • cratermoon 3 hours ago

          Well I have slightly more advanced than beginning presbyopia and wear reading glasses almost all the time now. My experience with most fonts is why I noted B612's legibility at small sizes.

      • Doxin a day ago

        That's surprisingly readable for such a tiny size!

    • bingo-bongo a day ago

      Maybe the taller aspect ratio is due to cockpit surfaces being more horizontal or vertical than eyesight..?

      Like letters/words painted on the road for drivers to read them.

  • polishdude20 2 days ago

    Funny how it's supposed to be designed to be legible. I read that as "disengage" at first rather than "disregard"

    • Night_Thastus 2 days ago

      It may account for the specific displays used in the cockpit, the colors of the font and background, and maybe even interior lighting.

      IOW it may be more optimal in its real usage.

    • octo888 2 days ago

      Not just me. Maybe it's how it's displayed on the web. I had an immediate "this is awful" response LOL

      • fmajid a day ago

        The kerning is not great, for starters

        • atoav a day ago

          Legible != Readable

          Legability means you have to be able to differenciate words and letters. With a font specialized for aerospace use that probably also mean it has to retain that quality when printed on panels.

          A special requirement I would think of is legability while in motion. Try taking your favourite, perfectly kerned font and reading it while shaking your head wildly in poor light conditions, then you get a hint of why this font isn't optimized for looks.

sho_hn 2 days ago

This seems as good a thread as any to post this in:

If you're fond of aviation aesthetics, I was recently looking for a workshop cart to occupy a 60x40 cm space and couldn't find any, until I realized that (a) standard issue half-size ATLAS airplane galley trolleys are 30x40 cm and (b) they can be bought by regular people and are very price-competitive with professional grade workshop and office furniture.

Now I own these and they're amazing:

https://mero.ng/i/xnZNqouw.jpg

I especially like the little pull-out tables at the top (they're right next to https://eikehein.com/assets/images/makercorner.jpg).

It's also nice to have a constant reminder to stow them in case I take off or land my office.

  • ghostly_s 2 days ago

    To save anyone else the searching: parent's definition of "price-competitive with professional furniture" seems to be $500-$1000 used. I can't find anyone listing a price for new.

    • sho_hn 2 days ago

      Yup, mine were 650 EUR a piece new with the drawers shown in the other comment from https://trolley-dolly.de/ (one of several shops I found), though it looks like they now stopped with trolley+drawers bundles.

      I was looking at the used market at first, but it turns out that a lot of those are enthusiast collectibles and don't seem to be cheaper than new ones when in good condition, i.e. airline branding bumps the price up, sometimes considerably.

      It's obviously all >IKEA, but if you compare this to stuff like Lista office drawers or automotive workshop trolleys it's maybe half, and much closer to the pricing of lower-end stuff from a big brand chain toolstore--but with higher build quality, superior rigidity, better wheels and brakes, and being lighter to move around since the application is weight-conscious. Add the subjective neat-ness factor and I think it's worthy of consideration :)

      • cromka 2 days ago

        Seems like a life-hack to me, great job!

    • quokka a day ago

      I found some on sale for around $300 on Etsy. Shipping is very expensive, so they would probably make sense only if you can manage local pickup.

  • _charlier a day ago

    Adam Savage mentioned in a Q&A that, many years ago, he stumbled upon dozens of these in an empty parking lot behind an industrial building in SF. Apparently he still uses a couple of them in his workshop.

  • kqr 2 days ago

    What are their innards like? This looks very useful!

    • sho_hn 2 days ago

      Since the inside dimensions and mounting rails are standard, there's lots of different compatible inserts you can get.

      I cheapened out a bit at that point and went with double-height plastic drawers:

      https://mero.ng/i/RixswvHW.jpg

      Drawers generally come in single/double and plastic or aviation-grade welded alu.

      There's also a bunch of funky stuff like cages to keep hot bread in for serving, and an after-market of "galley trolleys as designer furniture" companies that turn them into minibars with wine chillers and bottle storage and what not.

  • moffkalast a day ago

    I hope you stow it in its compartment while your house experiences turbulence like the label demands.

    • dotancohen a day ago

      That's how the wife knows he's being serious during an argument. He goes and stows his trolleys.

    • bpye 20 hours ago

      At least they're prepared for an earthquake.

biohazard2 2 days ago

Two articles providing more information about the creation of this font: https://lii.enac.fr/projects/definition-and-validation-of-an... https://www.enac.fr/fr/une-police-realisee-par-les-chercheur...

In particular, a screen of an Airbus screen and a video showing parts of the creation are provided.

  • kens a day ago

    Curiously, the photo of the screen shows slashed zeros, while the font sample shows non-slashed zeros.

    • AlfredDogsbody a day ago

      I noticed the same thing. It's the first thing I check when someone describes a font as "legible." I want to see O0olI|i diplayed.

    • saltcured 8 hours ago

      The photo actually shows some slashed and some non-slashed zeros too. Look at the PSI numbers on the left versus the time numbers in the center right.

      That doesn't seem great from a UX standpoint.

    • bitschubser_ 7 hours ago

      codepoint E007 is a slashed zero... would be interesting to know why this is not the default

      • bitschubser_ 7 hours ago

        strangely its not included in the regular font face... only in the italic, bold, bold italic and monospace variant

        0123456789

uyzstvqs 2 days ago

There's also B612 Mono, for use in your text editor or terminal.

https://fonts.google.com/specimen/B612+Mono

  • sho_hn 2 days ago

    Oh, interesting. The proportional font looked pretty terrible to me, but I threw the mono at some C++ and it's actually not unpleasant. Maybe worth a longer trial.

    • 6SixTy a day ago

      One thing I've noticed with this font though is that the square and round brackets look very close to each other.

      One of the Monaspace family fonts is very aesthetically similar to B612, but the round bracket is very exaggerated compared to the square bracket.

croisillon 2 days ago

Just in case anyone is wondering about the name: B612 is Saint-Exupery's "Little Prince"'s planet (asteroid). A real-life asteroid has then been named B612, but its number is actually 46610.

  • bitwize a day ago

    46610 decimal = 0xb612 :)

crabl 2 days ago

It's interesting to me that those fonts seem to include ink traps: curious if this has anything to do with the display tech that's used in the cockpit

  • nonethewiser 2 days ago

    I had not heard of ink traps. Basically, they are characters that try to account for ink bleeding. By putting more negative space in corners, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_trap

    But that gives me the impression it would have nothing to do with displays. And makes it a pretty curious choice.

    Although I personally dont see any ink traps from the font linked in the comments https://fonts.google.com/specimen/B612

    • whalesalad 2 days ago

      Set font size slider to 300px and you will notice them. I'd love to see the study that decided this was the right move. For a digital display its just noise and won't even render correctly at small sizes without a high dpi display. I doubt they would do this just for stylistic purposes. Seems like a very odd decision to me.

      • sho_hn 2 days ago

        It seems far too deliberate not to be so. Wonder about the reason too. Maybe dual-use with printouts?

        Edit: I found their reasoning:

        "Moreover, activity analysis has highlighted possible impairment in reading context: variations of light and viewing angle, high cognitive load for the pilot etc�

        So, B612 has created a concept of increased legibility of shape for less ideal situations and associated methods of mark corrections, to optimise the final rendering of the text and on-screen reading, particularly with the use of incises and ‘light-traps’ .

        An incise is a small serif which interrupts the regularity of the vertical line: here it allows to accentuate the clarity of the leading stroke (top part) of the vertical stem 8 to avoid it being rounded off when antialiasing.

        The principle of ‘ink traps’ has existed as long as typography has: it is a small indentation at the junction of letter strokes which ‘traps’ the ink on small characters, so that it doesn't block the junction and affect the legibility. In the case of B612, the ‘light traps’ accentuate the counterforms 7, particularly for the sharp angles� The indenta- tions are always well distinguished, even at a small size, and the contrast between the different strokes of the character is reinforced."

        From page 8 of: https://github.com/polarsys/b612/blob/master/docs/B612-Leafl...

        The doc also has a photo of their experimental test environment (unsurprisingly: a cockpit) and info on the test process.

        • mbreese 2 days ago

          I didn’t know about ink traps, but I did notice them right away in the sample images. I was guessing that it would help increase legibility when it was embossed or in raised printing on a physical button.

      • Nextgrid a day ago

        I wonder if it’s a mitigation for common visual conditions or for better viewing in high-vibration environments?

  • diggan 13 hours ago

    Seems like Page 8 in the PDF/leaflet from the repository talks about it:

    > The principle of ‘ink traps’ has existed as long as typography has: it is a small indentation at the junction of letter strokes which ‘traps’ the ink on small characters, so that it doesn't block the junction and affect the legibility. In the case of B612, the ‘light traps’ accentuate the counterforms 7, particularly for the sharp angles� The indentations are always well distinguished, even at a small size, and the contrast between the different strokes of the character is reinforced.

    > An incise is a small serif which interrupts the regularity of the vertical line: here it allows to accentuate the clarity of the leading stroke (top part) of the vertical stem 8 to avoid it being rounded off when antialiasing.

  • crazygringo a day ago

    If the font is used primarily as light on black, then light bleeds analogously to how ink does, albeit via a different mechanism. Whether on the screen itself (like CRT) or on our retina.

  • wrs 2 days ago

    Ooh, great question. I guess “ink” traps would actually make sense for CRT displays due to phosphor bleed. (See the design of the VT100 font.) However, according to Wikipedia Airbus started using LCDs well before this font was made.

    • Nextgrid a day ago

      Firmware updates could account for this font being used on much earlier hardware though?

      The monitors (or DUs for “display unit”) could remain old but the underlying computers could’ve been upgraded.

  • athenot 2 days ago

    That stood out to me as well. Bell Centennial† used that for phonebooks; here I suspect the light-on-dark display has some visual bleeding that this compensates for, especially for tired pilots.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Centennial

  • gdupont 2 days ago

    Stuff that are on display can also be printed (on board in the cockpit) for whatever reasons the pilots decide.

    I thought that the printed were using thermal printing (for which I'm not sure the ink traps apply) but maybe not all of them.

_fat_santa 2 days ago

I've been using B612 as my main font in Obsidian for years and it's been awesome. Very legible and easy to pickup on a note just with a glance.

cge a day ago

Something I have never been able to find an explanation for with B612: why is the final sigma character (ς) vertically offset downward from every other Greek character? It makes for very jarring text, and there doesn't seem to be any explanation anywhere.

kraussvonespy a day ago

I put B612 on my kindles a few months ago and it's my favorite reading font. Very legible from tiny to huge, no serifs to slow things down.

I'm not sure I'd use it for written documents, although the monospace version is a very welcome replacement for courier.

groos a day ago

Needs a tweak for programming: () looks like []. Otherwise, I like it.

java-man 2 days ago

I don't understand why 0 and O look nearly identical.

  • biohazard2 2 days ago

    It seems they are using the regular zero or a slashed variant depending on the risk of confusion: https://lii.enac.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/B612-PolarSys...

    • realo 2 days ago

      Now that is an interesting picture! I am far from being a UI expert, but I do dabble and i would not have thought both forms of zero could be used in the same HMI display to lower cognitive load.

      Very interesting! Thanks.

      • java-man a day ago

        Different contractors, probably.

    • atonse a day ago

      Wow that looks WAY better in the picture than in the various screenshots (and google fonts) we're all looking at. It looks very clean and legible.

  • killermonkeys 2 days ago

    Worth underlining that designers work very hard to understand the needs of the particular situation.

    Usually type designers consider the legibility of 3, 6, 8, 9, 0 (particularly 8 and 0) to be more important than between O and 0. But for coders, the ambiguity between O and 0 is a big problem, so a designer would consider that.

    An example for pilots: you are heading 180 and radio it as "one zero eight". Even if you immediately correct yourself, it's a problem.

  • ilc 2 days ago

    Aviation use. They won't allow O and 0 to be valid for the same data.

    So there is no need to disambiguate them.

  • teraflop 2 days ago

    That's true of lots of fonts. I don't think contexts where you would have to distinguish between those two characters are nearly as common in aviation as they are in programming.

  • jeffbee 2 days ago

    What would be displayed in an aircraft cockpit where this ambiguity would matter?

pgorczak 2 days ago

While this font looks kind of weird up close, I found it great for creating plots. It’s my default choice in matplotlib rcParams.

java-man 2 days ago
  • kens a day ago

    Interestingly, a lot of those characters are not Unicode characters: the aircraft motion, weather pictograms, mail, wifi, phone, the "computer science pictograms" such as start/stop/copy/paste/print/trash, and so forth. Specifically, these use Unicode's private use area at E000.

    (See B612-Leaflet.pdf page 35.)

shellwizard a day ago

It looks similar to Carlito, which is an OFI font similar to MS Calibri

amelius 2 days ago

How about the flight manuals?

bitwize a day ago

I want to love B612 more than I do, but the ohs and zeroes look identical, which ruins it as a terminal/editor font.

  • ComputerGuru a day ago

    See other comments; a slashed variant is available.

    • bitwize 4 hours ago

      It looks like the slashed zero is put in the private use area, which doesn't make it particularly useful as a font for Emacs.

eastbound 2 days ago

B612 is the of the asteroid in The Little Prince from Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. Seemed strange that they used a name starting with B for an Airbus ;)

rsync a day ago

Does the font change based on what the aircraft is doing?

I kid …

  • herewulf a day ago

    That's actually a rather interesting proposition for any application. Hmm..

  • koziserek a day ago

    пулл уп! пулл уп!

fortran77 2 days ago

The cockpit? What is it?

  • voxadam 19 hours ago

    It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now.

whalesalad 2 days ago

Looks like a worse version of Fira Sans