Oh, is this actually out now? If so, great, but I took a quick look and didn't spot any third party review yet. For those interested in this laptop, personally I'd still wait for some reviews from some real world people.
So, 3.5 years later, the chassis is still neat, and good on them for plugging away I guess, but for anyone that actually needs a new computer, there's no shortage of higher-end Linux-centric laptops with a better shipping track record (Framework, Tuxedo Computers, Slimbook, etc).
I was minutes from ordering my 4th Thinkpad X1 when I found out about them. Although the Starfighter is a bit too big and heavy for me they also have the Horizon model which is exactly what I'm looking for - if only it came in 64GB ram option and a newer CPU (the former - not yet, the latter is coming soon). In any case, they made me decide to hold off and wait. If they do release a 64G Horizon model I'm all over it.
What an unfortunate time for these niche hardware companies to be launching new hardware. Framework, StarLabs, System76, (I wonder if Tuxedo will release something). The RAM prices must be killing them. Even if they increase prices to accommodate, I know quite a lot of folks who are simply punting any purchasing until things calm down.
I just ordered my Framework without any memory or storage, hoping that by the time it arrives, I'll be able to pick up some RAM and an SSD for a more reasonable price. If not, I'll just grab something from a drawer and use it underspecced until prices normalize.
Sensible thought. I very much hope there is a glut of one-three year old ram and GPUs on the market in about one year when the AI market "cools" and the ear-marked components return to the market.
The banks that lent the AI industry the money are already trying to sell their debt.
Unless you meant buying an entire server (instead of laptop/desktop components), it won't work out the way you are describing. Prices may come down, but the components for the datacenters market aren't fungible with the components for laptop or desktop. You might not know what is being "earmarked" in this case?
Yes, the DRAM dies all come from the same wafer supply and fab capacity, and those limits are the cause of the current prices. However, once the memory OEMs have packaged DRAM dies into something like an LRDIMM or SOCAMM, the cake is baked. It's no longer usable in a laptop or desktop. No amount of X-year-old LRDIMMs (hypothetically) flooding the market will be useful for anyone's desktop or laptop. And then there's HBM, where the dies are directly on-package with the CPU or GPU.
Second-hand, revalidated server DRAM components may contribute somewhat to a price decrease, but those won't be the components you or I will be purchasing (unless you run a true server platform as a desktop, in which case, shine on you crazy diamond!).
The same is partly true for GPUs: there are PCIe versions, but most are OAM or SXM modules. You might be able to jury-rig an SXM module into a desktop? Adapter cards exist for at least some SXM versions, and you could figure out the cooling somehow? But it's probably more trouble than it's worth.
I have some amount of confidence that the sellers on AliExpress will figure out how to create cheap hardware that makes use out of all of this when it hits the secondary market.
For standard desktop CPUs, the memory controller doesn't support the signaling required to communicate with an RDIMM. There's no clever AliExpress adapter that will magically give a component within your CPU capabilities that it simply doesn't have.
However, if you have a true workstation, you don't even need some adapter from AliExpress! Xeon 600, Threadripper 7000, Threadripper 9000 all support RDIMMs natively.
I wonder why the price difference between the 8845HS and the 285H is more than the cost of some complete 8845HS based systems. Also a shame one can't opt out of the storage or accessories like (yet another) measly 65W USB C+USB A GaN charger.
Other than those things, it actually looks decently exciting. I love the 16:10 + high resolution. Screen brightness isn't amazing, but also better than average. Glad to see 120 hz+ across all of the options. Privacy kill switch is great but the removable magnetic webcam seems a bit overkill/complicated given the kill switch (a simple physical slide would have been plenty as well). The hardware options aren't too bad for an open/Linux focused device. 6 USB ports + HDMI + audio ports is great, given the thickness it would have been cool to throw in a built in ethernet port, SD slot, and DP out to negate most of the need for the dock.
If I hadn't already bought a laptop this year this would probably be high on my list.
i would highlight two non-tech strengths of starlabs as well: they're based in Europe and from personal experience they have really good customer service
Has the availability of Starlabs hardware gotten better? Back in August 2024 I ordered a Starbook and then cancelled the order 4 months later when the laptop was still not delivered and Framework started selling in my country.
They are free to charge you extra for taking the charger out of the box. So I'd grant them a bit of civil disobedience on this one and just take that nice GaN charger.
I can see the EU's take on this, and maybe overall this will even be good. I have some nice Anker chargers and can charge everything we have at home with them (added some USB-C to ligthning/micro-USB thingies here and there), but I'd be a bit annoyed if the EU would force my company operating with small margins to have 2 versions of my packaging workflow.
Maybe they should just "encourage" good behaviour? With a law that is less forcing, ie just say: "If you offer a version without charger, the price must be the same as with charger. " That would (slightly) encourage leaving it out, while not forcing companies' hands.
The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one. 65W GaN chargers are a nice sweet-spot at the moment (size/power/price-wise), ie Ikea has one at 14 eur), wouldn't mine having one or two extra.
The easiest option to implement would be to have separate SKUs for the charger and the laptop. And not three SKUs: laptop with charger, laptop without charger, separate charger.
If you ship to multiple countries you can reduce the SKUs even more as the laptop SKU isn’t country specific anymore.
Offering a version without the charger for the same price would not reduce ewaste which is the point.
Sure. And support is paying for people that are buying chargers that are too weak. Or otherwise crappy.
This is a Dutch source, but BTO charged 25 eur to remove the charger [0], because they prefer not to deal with people trying their own wonky chargers. Ok, so this was a 100 W+ laptop, arguably different (BTO only does this with 100 W+ models).
BTO does that because their laptops use more than what USB-PD can deliver (240 watt). That is an understandable use case for supplying a power adapter.
Do they actually have a business presence in the EU?
If not, how would those rules apply to them?
Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically converting US prices to the local currency of the visitor in spite of the company not having any connection to the visitor's locale always makes me think of drop shippers, not of legitimate businesses.
Especially if i'm in a non USD non EUR country, I am fully aware that there are different currencies in the world, I already have an established process for converting between those currencies and it's likely to be more to my advantage than whatever Stripe offers so please cut it down.
They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.
They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies.
If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to.
There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.
They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs.
Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.
You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction. It's a grey area, it'd have to be tested in court. I highly doubt anyone will bring a case though. That's like calling the police on your own drug dealer. (IANAL)
> which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction.
You're gonna have to point to part of the regulation where thats not allowed. there is a mechanism for deletion. so long as its done within 30 days its still within spec
I don't know it inside out but I'm following the basic standard "it should be as easy to withdraw consent as give it"
The overall point being that if you want to use a product/service, you'll look past minor violations of local regulations on account deletion or charger bundling.
Why are "premium" laptop vendors still putting vents on the bottom of their machines? Did they never try actually putting their laptop on their laps and realise how much that design sucks?
These are not laptop computers, they are notebooks. The only laptop I've personally seen had a 80286 processor... We call them laptops, but historically that name is wrong.
While it is possible to use a notebook on your lap, you are not supposed to. It is a terrible place that is unergonomic. You are supposed to put them on a table of some sort. If you are using it for more than something quick you should have a separate keyboard and mouse (ie attached to a docking station on your desk). The portable form factor is useful for meetings, presentations, or other such - but for real work they are terrible.
Since the lap what it was designed for, and a lap is a bad idea anyway: putting vents on the bottom isn't bad.
I frequently sit on my balcony, with my MacBook Pro in my lap. I'm still alive.
I also frequently use that computer, that doesn't have vents on the bottom, for watching movies in bed. And I don't need to think about vents. My last non-Apple computer was some ThinkPad, with vents on the bottom, and I remember always chasing some book to put under the computer to make the vents free. Boy, how I hated that.
Excellence. I like everything, and the open warranty is nice: "Our 1-year limited warranty allows you to take your computer apart, replace parts, install an upgrade, and use any operating system and even your firmware, all without voiding the warranty."
I'd love to see more than 5 years of updates, but there is so much to love here, I can look past that!
They don't sell you your OS, that's the big surface area that companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc have to swallow.
They also don't make these computers and are at the whim of their ODM, so unless you opt for Coreboot/Libreboot, there wouldn't be a possibility for that.
I have been using this for about a month and I love it. The screen looks great, the keyboard is great, the trackpad is great (I have been using Lenovos for ~20 years and though I couldn't live without the trackpoint). The battery life is more than enough for my usage during my daily commute and way better than the mere 1.5 hours I could squeeze out of my old Thinkpad P1.
I genuinely don't think there is anything I would want changed on this laptop.
I am not sure since I have never gotten to zero. But I would think I could easily get 6-7 hours out of it, although it depends a lot on the type of work I do and whether I am in meetings. I use IntelliJ and run heavy test suites all the time, and that does drain the battery faster.
I have never owned an Apple product, but I have helped other people from time to time. It's hard to say because I'm not used to it, but the trackpad feels really snappy and precise, and the 120hz display also helps making it feel really smooth when scrolling
I love cheap secondhand Dells and have been running them for decades. But it's absolutely the case that their build quality has been going steadily downhill for a long time, even for their business line laptops.
This laptop looks to be more in line with a MacBook in terms of build quality, with a price to match. It's being sold as a Linux laptop, what makes you think there will be driver issues?
On the other hand, full size arrow keys make this a non-starter for me. I need to position my fingers over the arrow keys without looking at them, and half-size allows me to do that by touch feeling.
For that exact same reason I've been avoiding half-sized up/down keys and full arrow keys, as well as mate screen and weight, have been my first filters when browsing for laptops. How annoying must it be to design those machines with such a variety of tastes :)
I can't imagine the supply chain challenges inherent to startup laptop manufacturers. I think it's "go with what you have access to at reasonable prices, or forget about it. "
I think Framework is a good example of how smaller laptop OEMs end up shipping late, often on the order of three quarters. This is something else entirely, if any of these configurations are recent arrivals (I don't think they are).
I don’t believe they actually make the hardware. I know sytem76 always just rebadges Clevo hardware. You were basically paying for Linux to be preinstalled and for the Linux focused support.
EDIT. Actually it looks like I was wrong about that. They do apparently at least make their own chassis’s unsure about the motherboard’s or screens though.
system76 does not make their laptops, they do make some of their desktop lines though. System76 however is large enough that they get input into what Clevo designs - they Clevo often changes the hardware internals, but system76 ensures that the new hardware still has linux drivers. (in some cases system76 has shipped a laptop with something announced as not supported on linux, but this is rare and the rest of the features still works, and this is only done for a feature they figure linux users wouldn't use anyway)
System76 has long been working on their own laptop - every few years they make a progress report announcement - but I don't expect to see it anytime soon.
I have the Intel Core i9 in my 2019 MBP, and it gets so damn hot. How do the ones offered here compare? I'm not one to upgrade frequently, but the heat of this thing makes me go looking. Luckily, it sits on a stand on a desk with more 9s than github is up.
A 2019 MacBook Pro would have an Intel Skylake processor (N-th re-release), made on Intel's stagnant 14nm process. The older Intel option for the StarFighter has its CPU cores made on an Intel process two generations newer, and the rest of the chiplets made by TSMC. The newer Intel option moves the CPU chiplet to TSMC as well. They're in a very different league for power efficiency than your current machine, both from the fab improvements and from having a microarchitecture that's not from 2015.
Case temperature is very much at the discretion of the laptop OEM. Some OEMs take regulatory limits on skin temperature seriously and ship a well-tuned thermal control system that keeps the case at a comfortable temperature. Others push close to the legal limits to keep fan noise in check. Others ship plastic enclosures so they can get away with even higher temperatures (since plastic has lower thermal conductivity than metal, and thus a harder time cooking your thighs) at the expense of more noise.
The StarFighter has a metal case, so when running at high power levels (45W sustained according to the spec sheet) it will either get uncomfortably hot somewhere on the case or at least a bit noisy from the fans, but since it's a bit thicker than the 2019 MacBook Pro it should be able to cool itself more effectively. But when running at the performance level you're used to the power draw should be plenty low enough to make temperature and fan noise not a problem: roughly double the peak CPU performance means you can turn down the power limits a lot and still have a better-performing machine.
Every generation of CPU has high-power and low-power variants. The i9 is a high power variant that generates a lot of heat but what you want is the low power variant.
I recommend looking for a used laptop with a Core Ultra 7 165U (<$500) or a Core Ultra 7 268V (>$1000). Maybe an HP EliteBook. Either one would be faster than your old i9 and run much cooler.
I really like the detachable webcam gimmick - I'm sure that, like all gimmicks, it could prove frustrating sometimes, but it's a novel way to have both a decent webcam and thin bezels without notches, nose-facing cameras, etc.
I like it both for the peace of mind that the webcam is off, but also because I anyway have a dedicated external webcam both at the office and at home, so I really don't need a webcam lens in the lid except for the rare occasions where I need to take a meeting on the go.
Most devices still support S3 sleep, it's just disabled by default as s2idle (modern standby) has become the default. You can almost always re-enable S3 sleep if you really want to, but on modern devices it typically only takes a few seconds to resume from S4 (suspend-to-disk) which technically is safer and more reliable. Also you can always use suspend-then-hibernate if you really want fast resume during the day, but long battery life when it's more than an hour or so.
My Thinkpad p16s does not have s3 sleep. And s2idle lasts for a couple hours before it dies because every device has to sleep before it goes to true idle, but can never get all the USB devices to sleep. It's crap. S3 worked fine and was robust.
I don't know what "most" in your case means, but pretty much none of the new laptops I've seen have S3 support available in their UEFI. And even if you somehow patch it in, the peripherals don't have drivers anymore that would successfully resume.
100% agreed. it upsets me when i see companies like framework advertising themselves front and centre as Linux-first, yet won't sponsor a coreboot port. starlabs, system76 and novacustom actually walk the walk
Framework plans to eventually support coreboot, as far as I am aware. (Or open source the current one they purchased).
It just wasn't the main priority.
They focused on making a repairable laptops ecosystem first.
Switching to different firmware later isn't ruled out.
Same-size cursor keys (with the whole line and without any distinction) is such an ill-design decision. Nice to show in the presentation slide deck, but hard to actually use blindly.
This is lovely. I'd love it if this or the Framework Pro also had OLED options, though.
My aging Thinkpad P1 (1st Gen) has a great LCD, but it's also the last non-OLED screen in my life, and I don't think I can buy another laptop without it. In fact it would be a purchase decision driver/upgrade incentive for me. This and longer battery life.
Even though I build lots of C++ code, I still don't think I need more than the Xeon in the P1, horse-power wise.
> 01. Removable Webcam With its easy-to-disconnect magnetic connector, you can simply unplug the webcam whenever you want to ensure that no one can access it.
What about the microphone though?
The camera issue has been solved years ago by a simple analog hack of physically obscuring its field of view, with some business units having a physical switch built-in.
The same is much more difficult for a microphone, hence the appeals of privacy-conscious folks about it, mostly unanswered.
One of the best investments I’ve ever made was to get an 8TB drive for my laptop. Never having to worry about disk space again is so nice. Consider it if you’re in the market for a new laptop.
Does it ever worry you that all 8TB could fail in one place? Do you have redundant drives (like two 4TB or four 2TB drives)?
I'd be worried about having all of my storage in one place. I like to back up data to more than one place if it's important, and never have huge on-device storage because if something happens to damage it, I'm assuming it's game over for all on-device storage (rather than only part of it). I'd rather my storage was safe and cozy in some place far from where my laptops go.
But if you're not all that worried and happen to do data-intensive work or something, awesome, 8TB sounds like a dream.
I recently switched from Linux to freebsd on my work computer and things have been mostly working. With linux chroot I can use the few apps missing BSD port.
I did this because I manage a fleet of BSD based server (BSD runs zfs and bhyve with VM on it) and I wanted the same base system for me.
I wonder how BSD friendly those laptop are.
In any case I am so happy to see some open hardware solution.
Do these user-configurable laptops come with a mesh bag to hold their parts? Like the camera on the StarFighter, and the modules on a Framework. Would be a cool branding opportunity.
I already like it better than Framework with Framework having a better philosophy of reusability and upgradability. Basically I am undecided. Both are too good.
I've been working from a ARM windows laptop for a year now and have gotten so used to a full day of battery, I don't even bring a charger anymore. I would love a framwork or Starfigher laptop, but I don't feel like the batterylife on intel and amd is there yet?
Looks amazing, it even has Ins key, as if they expect people to actually work on this laptop /s :) . But the price of 4200$ is out of reach for me unfortunately.
FWIW I have had a StarLite Mk IV for three years now and haven't run into a single issue with it (except maybe the speakers being quite poor).
Unfortunately the company stopped releasing firmware updates for it soon after they launched Mk V. I don't know if it can be still built from source for the older devices.
I'm also the happy owner of a StarLite Mk IV. The perfect travel laptop. Thin, light, fanless, excellent keyboard and touchpad, matt screen, rock solid chassis, good battery life. I'm dreading the day when it finally breaks as there's nothing comparable on the market today. I wish they could do another run.
Very different niche from the StarFighter but StarLabs make excellent machines.
Based on my experience with the System 76 Lemur Pro coming from a Macbook Pro, matte helps a bit. You won't have mirror glare like on the Macbook, but the sun will still wash out the matte screen.
If you want to use it on the beach you will probably need an e-ink display because no laptop screen can compete with the sun. But matte is still infinitely better than glossy for less than ideal conditions such as working on a train where there might be sunlight coming in from the side.
Glossy screens are, in my humble opinion, a stupid gimmick because they look a bit better at ideal viewing conditions. For mobile devices the viewing conditions are most often not ideal, so it really doesn't make any sense unless the screen has to be a touch screen. I have had one laptop with a glossy screen and I ended up putting a glare reducing sticker on it because the glare was intolerable.
I happen to be looking around for a 15 or 16 inch laptop, but these look pretty unsuitable for me. Odd CPU choices, and no apparent way to configure one with 16GB ram in this time of AI-fueled cost crisis. All but the standard are way out of my budget range - especially considering none have a dGPU. Also for idiosyncratic reasons I need a numeric keypad.
Not sure who the target market is.. but on the homepage it only lists the CPU's in the era of AI/Models etc I'd put the GPU and VRAM somewhere on mainpage as well.
Even when I view "Tech Specs" still don't see the VRAM ?
Just some feedback.
Is this an improvement on how long whatever it's talking about usually gets updates for, or is putting a limit on it at all a bad sign? I've only seen this with regards to mobile phones before.
There are no guarantees your laptop will ever get a single update (let alone 5 years) unless they state as much. Most do not state any guarantee or less than 5 years.
Does it mean this machine has the potential of having amazing battery life since it can be fully programmed? I am talking as close to MacBook Pro level (not accounting for arm vs intel/amd difference).
The Framework 13 absolutely does not touch the MacBook Pro battery life in any of its current configurations, though the upcoming 13 pro promises to.
I have a Ryzen 5 AI 340 powered machine and average about 6 hours. I might be able to stretch that to 7 if I dimmed the screen a bunch and only did light web browsing.
This is closer battery life to MacBook Neo, not an Air or Pro under the same workload.
I made it a rule of mine to only buy my next hardware upgrades from such companies. This is the future that leads to a human race that is knowledge focused. Closing off technology with contrived schematics and patents encourages the masses to stay ignorant.
Those are nice looking machines. I don't see any mention of high-end GPUs, though. Do you offer any models that include heavy-duty GPUs for the more usually beefier AI stuff?
Has almost everything I want, full size cursor + dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdown but fingerprint sensor would have been nice, although linux support for those is dodgy.
I had a Starbook for three years. It was constantly plauged with power issues. As long as I had it plugged in via the barrel connector, everything was fine. But if I tried to charge it over USB-C, it would often fail to boot, lock up, require hard power cycling, and still not come back stable. If I left it completely shut down for a week, the battery would be dead and I couldn't get it back until it had charged (with the barrel connector charger, it would not charge from dead in USB-C) for at least 10 minutes.
Everything else about the computer I loved, but the power issue often meant it was not available when I wanted it. I eventually sold it on eBay (with full disclosure of the issues).
It is still a crazy question though because if you seen most laptops in the last 15 years there is basically no room for them except on the large workstation thinkpads or large gaming laptops.
I must also mention that I'm happy to see the UHK has a ball-retention ring; this used to be normal for trackballs but companies moved away for it for some reason.
Yes, the MNT Reform and Pocket Reform both have trackballs[1]. They're very different products from the StarFighter laptop though, in that they sacrifice a lot of potential processing power in exchange for a platform which is much more amenable to customization.
Sad for the processor, it has a "16-core Intel Ultra 9 285H" which is from what I understand intel 15th gen, while the 16th gen, "Panther Lake", seems to be the one giving battery life around as good as the M1 in the new Dell laptops.
There isn't exactly a lot of design freedom in a black rectangle with a screen a keyboard and a touchpad. A real Macbook copy would include Macbook misfeatures, like:
- control key in wrong place
- camera notch
- half sized arrow keys
It doesn't look exactly the same. Sure, if it had a tiny touchpad with separate buttons or missing indent so that it's inconvenient to open the lid or didn't have stereo speakers or was really thick then it would look even more different than an MBP... If one company nails some design elements before others, why should everyone who gets those elements too be blamed for copying it.
It doesn't. It looks like a slick laptop, but it is as similar to Macbook Pro as it is to a modern Thinkpad. The hinge in particular stands out and looks like a Thinkpad hinge as opposed to the hidden hinge of a Macbook. Other than that, there is not much design freedom left when the whole industry has kinda agreed that a big trackpad and rounded corners is the way to go.
A long time ago. But I ran into all sorts of issues. It was a struggle getting things like Bluetooth or WiFi working. And I just couldn’t get myself to feeling like I could ‘trust it’. Like that I wouldn’t break it and somehow lose all my data in th process.
Looks like they're UK based. I don't know, but apparently tariffs etc are factored into the shipping fees shown on their site.
If you're not sure if you want to go Linux yet, it's probably best to try a live USB stick of a few distros on your existing hardware. Get a feel for what the interface is like, how things work, how it works on your hardware, etc, without actually changing anything. Seems like a better bet to me than buying all-new hardware.
As the other commenter said, evaluate a live usb with any distribution with KDE Plasma Desktop, for example Fedora, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or Endeavour OS (Arch Linux based). You can also try something like Fedora Kinoite or Bazzite, so called immutable distributions which make it really easy to use for non-technical people.
Tried and failed to beat Framework to market. Frankly I'm hopeful that Framework beats this offering out, though I'm happy for the competitive pressure.
Starlabs is older than framework and their machines are *at least" as repairable. I have been using a really good one for 4 years or so. And their firmware is open source.
That was a Panther Lake based laptop. Lunar Lake laptops can also last well over 12 hours, even in Linux. This StarFighter offers neither Lunar Lake nor Panther Lake, so 18 hours is probably only under really ideal circumstances.
I reliably get 6 hours out of my Framework 13 with the Ryzen 5 340. And that's with multiple IDE's, 20 browser tabs, full screen brightness. I'm running the latest Fedora without any power saving tweaks.. just stock.
It's not MacBook good but it's much better than 3hrs :)
I have no experience with cachyOS, so can't comment there, but I don't see the point in offering pre-installed Arch. I'd say most Arch users are fairly picky and opinionated about their setup, and would choose to reinstall anyway.
1. "AI" is a marketing term used by the likes of OpenAI/Anthropic/Google. LocalLLaMa communities prefer to use "LLM" or "model". So for a lot of people "AI" is just a service (see 4.)
2. "AI capability" is an irrelevant spec and marketing slug. The hardware specs will give you the needed infomation to consider a model[0][1].
3. If you'll want to run a model locally, you'd know that a midrange notebook isn't the device to look for. Instead, look at workstations with discrete graphic cards + lots of VRAM (24GB+), Strix Halo APUs or a MacBook with lots of RAM, or some dedicated workstations like the NVIDIA DGX Spark[2].
4. An inference engine can run anywhere, you can pick any LLM hosting service. LLM clients just expect an API endpoint anyway.
I only use a number pad for playing a few games, and for bulk data entry. Neither of those use cases are something I prefer using my laptop for, and even on my desktops they're rare enough that I'd much rather have the number pad separate and largely out of the way.
What do you use a number pad for often enough to not only see it as mandatory for you, but to leave you unable to imagine how anyone could live without it?
I never used it. Well, I lie, I did use it back in the day for playing some DOS games where you had to share your keyboard with your friend...
But all my keyboards have been TKL over the past 15+ years and I don't miss it. I don't know why anyone needs to use a numpad unless they're in a job where they work a lot with numbers. And if you're not in such a role, what is your hobby exactly that demands so much number punching?
I bought a bluetooth 10-key. I use the home/end keys religiously when editing in an NLE, and it drove me crazy trying to be a road warrior without it. After having the external, I prefer it as it is full size instead of trying to squeeze it into the laptop frame size. So not having the numpad on the laptop is a-okay for me
I never use my numpad. I use the numbers in the top row of the keyboard.
I'd be super happy to yank my numpad out of my laptop, move the keyboard a little bit to the right and center align it with the center of the screen. My head would be centered with the middle of the screen too.
Unfortunately I had to settle with that keyboard because every other laptop was a worse tradeoff.
Absolutely hate numberpads on laptops - if you're sitting with the laptop directly in front of you it means your arms and hands are slightly offset to the left for normal typing.
Numpad makes notebooks unnecessarily wide (I don't like widescreen, 4:3 was the best aspect ratio), but classical Thinkpad arrows and home key block layout is what I really miss (and Trackpoint with proper drivers and cursor kinematics as it were in linux circa 2005)
Looks generic, and has the stereotypical abysmal keyboard and trackpad as any laptop made in the past 10+ years. Put this in a room with a few other laptops and it'd be hard to pick it out from the crowd. The only thing it has going for it are the raw specs, but it's eventually marred by the price for what is a poor typing and trackpad experience.
Oh, is this actually out now? If so, great, but I took a quick look and didn't spot any third party review yet. For those interested in this laptop, personally I'd still wait for some reviews from some real world people.
Some history on this laptop:
- The StarFighter 16 was originally announced back in November 2022 with an original delivery timeline of 3-4 months: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/yjuahx/star_...
- Here's a 500-comment HN thread from Feb 2023 about it (3-4 months later) now with an additional 4-5 month lead time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34759507
- The latest production updates only go back to July 31 2025 - they mention a 3-5 month timeline from January 2025 (seeing a pattern?): https://starlabs.kb.help/starfighter-production-updates/
There's an "Unboxing" video from Star Labs on the StarFighter from January 22, 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjYJS5AJZpE
So, 3.5 years later, the chassis is still neat, and good on them for plugging away I guess, but for anyone that actually needs a new computer, there's no shortage of higher-end Linux-centric laptops with a better shipping track record (Framework, Tuxedo Computers, Slimbook, etc).
I was minutes from ordering my 4th Thinkpad X1 when I found out about them. Although the Starfighter is a bit too big and heavy for me they also have the Horizon model which is exactly what I'm looking for - if only it came in 64GB ram option and a newer CPU (the former - not yet, the latter is coming soon). In any case, they made me decide to hold off and wait. If they do release a 64G Horizon model I'm all over it.
What an unfortunate time for these niche hardware companies to be launching new hardware. Framework, StarLabs, System76, (I wonder if Tuxedo will release something). The RAM prices must be killing them. Even if they increase prices to accommodate, I know quite a lot of folks who are simply punting any purchasing until things calm down.
True, but contrary to the fruity models, some of these are upgradedable.
My Asus netbook started with basic configuration and was maximised during its lifetime, just like any PC desktop.
Except that if you want to save on RAM you'll also have to pick the lower resolution screen and lower rated CPU. These aren't easy upgrades later on.
Still better than no upgrades at all like on Apple land, back to the 8 and 16 home computer days, only external upgrades and cable salad.
at least for a framework they are very easy upgrades tbh
I love the fact that the bezel is held on by magnets.
Last time I tried to replace the display in a laptop, I had plastic bits of bezel flying all around.
I just ordered my Framework without any memory or storage, hoping that by the time it arrives, I'll be able to pick up some RAM and an SSD for a more reasonable price. If not, I'll just grab something from a drawer and use it underspecced until prices normalize.
Sensible thought. I very much hope there is a glut of one-three year old ram and GPUs on the market in about one year when the AI market "cools" and the ear-marked components return to the market.
The banks that lent the AI industry the money are already trying to sell their debt.
Unfortunately most of it will likely be HBM and datacenter GPUs and therefore useless for consumers.
Unless you meant buying an entire server (instead of laptop/desktop components), it won't work out the way you are describing. Prices may come down, but the components for the datacenters market aren't fungible with the components for laptop or desktop. You might not know what is being "earmarked" in this case?
Yes, the DRAM dies all come from the same wafer supply and fab capacity, and those limits are the cause of the current prices. However, once the memory OEMs have packaged DRAM dies into something like an LRDIMM or SOCAMM, the cake is baked. It's no longer usable in a laptop or desktop. No amount of X-year-old LRDIMMs (hypothetically) flooding the market will be useful for anyone's desktop or laptop. And then there's HBM, where the dies are directly on-package with the CPU or GPU.
Second-hand, revalidated server DRAM components may contribute somewhat to a price decrease, but those won't be the components you or I will be purchasing (unless you run a true server platform as a desktop, in which case, shine on you crazy diamond!).
The same is partly true for GPUs: there are PCIe versions, but most are OAM or SXM modules. You might be able to jury-rig an SXM module into a desktop? Adapter cards exist for at least some SXM versions, and you could figure out the cooling somehow? But it's probably more trouble than it's worth.
I have some amount of confidence that the sellers on AliExpress will figure out how to create cheap hardware that makes use out of all of this when it hits the secondary market.
Yes, but also no?
For standard desktop CPUs, the memory controller doesn't support the signaling required to communicate with an RDIMM. There's no clever AliExpress adapter that will magically give a component within your CPU capabilities that it simply doesn't have.
However, if you have a true workstation, you don't even need some adapter from AliExpress! Xeon 600, Threadripper 7000, Threadripper 9000 all support RDIMMs natively.
Always the play if you're comfortable sourcing and installing your own because their store will always have a decent markup.
Smart move!
You have lpcamm2 just sitting around in a drawer? Or did you get last-gen?
Went with the AMD option for this reason.
This page shows an image of a laptop motherboard with socketed memory https://us.starlabs.systems/cdn/shop/products/B5i7PCB-01x200... but it actually has BGA soldered LPDDR5X.
I wonder why the price difference between the 8845HS and the 285H is more than the cost of some complete 8845HS based systems. Also a shame one can't opt out of the storage or accessories like (yet another) measly 65W USB C+USB A GaN charger.
Other than those things, it actually looks decently exciting. I love the 16:10 + high resolution. Screen brightness isn't amazing, but also better than average. Glad to see 120 hz+ across all of the options. Privacy kill switch is great but the removable magnetic webcam seems a bit overkill/complicated given the kill switch (a simple physical slide would have been plenty as well). The hardware options aren't too bad for an open/Linux focused device. 6 USB ports + HDMI + audio ports is great, given the thickness it would have been cool to throw in a built in ethernet port, SD slot, and DP out to negate most of the need for the dock.
If I hadn't already bought a laptop this year this would probably be high on my list.
They use the same image on their mini pc's page. https://us.starlabs.systems/pages/byte
i would highlight two non-tech strengths of starlabs as well: they're based in Europe and from personal experience they have really good customer service
Has the availability of Starlabs hardware gotten better? Back in August 2024 I ordered a Starbook and then cancelled the order 4 months later when the laptop was still not delivered and Framework started selling in my country.
I’m unable to order this laptop without a charging brick which is now illegal in the EU.
Same goes for the standard one year warranty. Should be two at minimum.
I had my country configured to Belgium while testing this.
doesn't charge by USB-C ?
USB-C is required from 2027 on
They are free to charge you extra for taking the charger out of the box. So I'd grant them a bit of civil disobedience on this one and just take that nice GaN charger.
I can see the EU's take on this, and maybe overall this will even be good. I have some nice Anker chargers and can charge everything we have at home with them (added some USB-C to ligthning/micro-USB thingies here and there), but I'd be a bit annoyed if the EU would force my company operating with small margins to have 2 versions of my packaging workflow.
Maybe they should just "encourage" good behaviour? With a law that is less forcing, ie just say: "If you offer a version without charger, the price must be the same as with charger. " That would (slightly) encourage leaving it out, while not forcing companies' hands.
The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one. 65W GaN chargers are a nice sweet-spot at the moment (size/power/price-wise), ie Ikea has one at 14 eur), wouldn't mine having one or two extra.
The easiest option to implement would be to have separate SKUs for the charger and the laptop. And not three SKUs: laptop with charger, laptop without charger, separate charger.
If you ship to multiple countries you can reduce the SKUs even more as the laptop SKU isn’t country specific anymore.
Offering a version without the charger for the same price would not reduce ewaste which is the point.
The laptop SKU probably would be country specific due to keyboard layouts though.
Forgot about that one! And EU devices need an engraved trash-can (WEEE symbol)
https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/l...
> The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one
You do realize you’re paying for the charger, right? And you don’t like the option of not having to purchase the charger?
Sure. And support is paying for people that are buying chargers that are too weak. Or otherwise crappy.
This is a Dutch source, but BTO charged 25 eur to remove the charger [0], because they prefer not to deal with people trying their own wonky chargers. Ok, so this was a 100 W+ laptop, arguably different (BTO only does this with 100 W+ models).
[0]: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/245774/bto-rekent-25-euro-boete-...
BTO does that because their laptops use more than what USB-PD can deliver (240 watt). That is an understandable use case for supplying a power adapter.
Do they actually have a business presence in the EU?
If not, how would those rules apply to them?
Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically converting US prices to the local currency of the visitor in spite of the company not having any connection to the visitor's locale always makes me think of drop shippers, not of legitimate businesses.
Especially if i'm in a non USD non EUR country, I am fully aware that there are different currencies in the world, I already have an established process for converting between those currencies and it's likely to be more to my advantage than whatever Stripe offers so please cut it down.
They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.
And those EU consumer protection laws apply outside the EU?
I know that USers think their laws apply everywhere, but that's just a myth.
In the opinion of the EU, they do as long as the customer is in the EU.
Everything else is just enforcement.
They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
You realize that the EU as a whole believes this and actively attempts to enforce it on citizens of other countries, right?
Same goes for e.g. GDPR compliance. You need to comply with GDPR when offering services to individuals in the EU no matter where you are based.
Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies.
If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to.
There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.
They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs.
Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.
Wouldn't customs seizing the device be a bigger problem for the importer?
From consumer perspective it's the problem of the seller. I would ask for a refund and if they refused I would do a chargeback.
They don't have to do business in EU if they don't want to follow the rules.
They are a UK company.
Wait til you hear about Hacker News' level of compliance with the GDPR
I'm curious: why is hacker news non-GDPR-compliant?
You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction. It's a grey area, it'd have to be tested in court. I highly doubt anyone will bring a case though. That's like calling the police on your own drug dealer. (IANAL)
I don’t see how that has anything to do with GDPR. An email is a perfectly fine way to initiate the process. It’s not a gray area
> which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction.
You're gonna have to point to part of the regulation where thats not allowed. there is a mechanism for deletion. so long as its done within 30 days its still within spec
I don't know it inside out but I'm following the basic standard "it should be as easy to withdraw consent as give it"
The overall point being that if you want to use a product/service, you'll look past minor violations of local regulations on account deletion or charger bundling.
Giving consent required you to receive an email to verify your account. Revoking consent requires you to send an email. It’s symmetric, like poetry.
You're admitting to not actually knowing the law, yet accusing someone of being in violation of it...
> You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction
GDPR has nothing to do with friction I beleve.
Our lawyer told me that GDPR also applies to paper records, so there is some real-world friction right there.
The important part that there is a right - in whatever good/broken process it is enveloped is irrelevant.
Moreover does HN host PII data? Not if you don't give it to them.
It's not warranty, it's Gewährleistung.
It's not $megacorp, try contacting them and asking.
They do reply on webchat and are quite nice.
Why are "premium" laptop vendors still putting vents on the bottom of their machines? Did they never try actually putting their laptop on their laps and realise how much that design sucks?
These are not laptop computers, they are notebooks. The only laptop I've personally seen had a 80286 processor... We call them laptops, but historically that name is wrong.
While it is possible to use a notebook on your lap, you are not supposed to. It is a terrible place that is unergonomic. You are supposed to put them on a table of some sort. If you are using it for more than something quick you should have a separate keyboard and mouse (ie attached to a docking station on your desk). The portable form factor is useful for meetings, presentations, or other such - but for real work they are terrible.
Since the lap what it was designed for, and a lap is a bad idea anyway: putting vents on the bottom isn't bad.
I frequently sit on my balcony, with my MacBook Pro in my lap. I'm still alive.
I also frequently use that computer, that doesn't have vents on the bottom, for watching movies in bed. And I don't need to think about vents. My last non-Apple computer was some ThinkPad, with vents on the bottom, and I remember always chasing some book to put under the computer to make the vents free. Boy, how I hated that.
Excellence. I like everything, and the open warranty is nice: "Our 1-year limited warranty allows you to take your computer apart, replace parts, install an upgrade, and use any operating system and even your firmware, all without voiding the warranty."
I'd love to see more than 5 years of updates, but there is so much to love here, I can look past that!
They don't sell you your OS, that's the big surface area that companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc have to swallow.
They also don't make these computers and are at the whim of their ODM, so unless you opt for Coreboot/Libreboot, there wouldn't be a possibility for that.
https://doc.coreboot.org/mainboard/starlabs/starfighter_mtl.... The previous version is already upstreamed, apparently.
I have been using this for about a month and I love it. The screen looks great, the keyboard is great, the trackpad is great (I have been using Lenovos for ~20 years and though I couldn't live without the trackpoint). The battery life is more than enough for my usage during my daily commute and way better than the mere 1.5 hours I could squeeze out of my old Thinkpad P1.
I genuinely don't think there is anything I would want changed on this laptop.
what's your average battery life?
I am not sure since I have never gotten to zero. But I would think I could easily get 6-7 hours out of it, although it depends a lot on the type of work I do and whether I am in meetings. I use IntelliJ and run heavy test suites all the time, and that does drain the battery faster.
Would you like to have a version with a TrackPoint even if you have managed to live without it?
With all these boutique laptop brands, I hope that one of them will eventually produce a pointing stick keyboard offer a route off Lenovo.
I feared that I would miss it too much, but after a week I stopped reaching for it with my finger.
How does it compare to a MacBook Pro? (if you ever used one)
I'm looking get rid of my MacBook Pro, and I'd like to switch to a Linux laptop, but I'm really worried about battery and trackpad.
I have never owned an Apple product, but I have helped other people from time to time. It's hard to say because I'm not used to it, but the trackpad feels really snappy and precise, and the 120hz display also helps making it feel really smooth when scrolling
The prices are still way too high.
You're better off buying a Dell XPS on sale, I saw one for about 800$ the other day with 32 GB of ram.
Dell has committed to actual Linux support.
I don't feel like paying a Linux nerd tax when most Windows laptops are fine.
</i>Lenovo seems to have the best support here. Otherwise enjoy the adventure in driver land!
I love cheap secondhand Dells and have been running them for decades. But it's absolutely the case that their build quality has been going steadily downhill for a long time, even for their business line laptops.
This laptop looks to be more in line with a MacBook in terms of build quality, with a price to match. It's being sold as a Linux laptop, what makes you think there will be driver issues?
I’m not convinced here.
All the lower scale manufacturers have to charge more to make a profit. Plus most just white label an existing brand.
The other feedback in this thread isn’t great.
As for drivers, I meant for Windows laptops running Linux. But that’s pretty rare now.
A framework competitor! Most of all I love the keyboard. Full size arrow keys as well as home, end and page up/down nearby.
I wish framework laptops could come with multiple possible keyboard layouts like the one on the picture.
StarLabs predates Framework by a couple years. Framework just does advertising to geeks better.
Framework actually ships its products and has tons of public reviews etc. way before StarLabs got a single laptop out.
It also helps that Framework actually releases their products when they say they will.
On the other hand, full size arrow keys make this a non-starter for me. I need to position my fingers over the arrow keys without looking at them, and half-size allows me to do that by touch feeling.
I feel the opposite -- with half-size up/down keys, it's too easy to mis-press them. I guess it's a matter of habit.
For that exact same reason I've been avoiding half-sized up/down keys and full arrow keys, as well as mate screen and weight, have been my first filters when browsing for laptops. How annoying must it be to design those machines with such a variety of tastes :)
Older than framewank, and more replaceable parts.
Is there something new here? The processor options seem to be two generation old Intel, one generation old Intel, and one generation old AMD.
I can't imagine the supply chain challenges inherent to startup laptop manufacturers. I think it's "go with what you have access to at reasonable prices, or forget about it. "
I think Framework is a good example of how smaller laptop OEMs end up shipping late, often on the order of three quarters. This is something else entirely, if any of these configurations are recent arrivals (I don't think they are).
I don’t believe they actually make the hardware. I know sytem76 always just rebadges Clevo hardware. You were basically paying for Linux to be preinstalled and for the Linux focused support.
EDIT. Actually it looks like I was wrong about that. They do apparently at least make their own chassis’s unsure about the motherboard’s or screens though.
system76 does not make their laptops, they do make some of their desktop lines though. System76 however is large enough that they get input into what Clevo designs - they Clevo often changes the hardware internals, but system76 ensures that the new hardware still has linux drivers. (in some cases system76 has shipped a laptop with something announced as not supported on linux, but this is rare and the rest of the features still works, and this is only done for a feature they figure linux users wouldn't use anyway)
System76 has long been working on their own laptop - every few years they make a progress report announcement - but I don't expect to see it anytime soon.
I have the Intel Core i9 in my 2019 MBP, and it gets so damn hot. How do the ones offered here compare? I'm not one to upgrade frequently, but the heat of this thing makes me go looking. Luckily, it sits on a stand on a desk with more 9s than github is up.
A 2019 MacBook Pro would have an Intel Skylake processor (N-th re-release), made on Intel's stagnant 14nm process. The older Intel option for the StarFighter has its CPU cores made on an Intel process two generations newer, and the rest of the chiplets made by TSMC. The newer Intel option moves the CPU chiplet to TSMC as well. They're in a very different league for power efficiency than your current machine, both from the fab improvements and from having a microarchitecture that's not from 2015.
Okay, but what does that mean for the temp of the case while sitting in one's lap. Can it be done without getting second degree burns?
Case temperature is very much at the discretion of the laptop OEM. Some OEMs take regulatory limits on skin temperature seriously and ship a well-tuned thermal control system that keeps the case at a comfortable temperature. Others push close to the legal limits to keep fan noise in check. Others ship plastic enclosures so they can get away with even higher temperatures (since plastic has lower thermal conductivity than metal, and thus a harder time cooking your thighs) at the expense of more noise.
The StarFighter has a metal case, so when running at high power levels (45W sustained according to the spec sheet) it will either get uncomfortably hot somewhere on the case or at least a bit noisy from the fans, but since it's a bit thicker than the 2019 MacBook Pro it should be able to cool itself more effectively. But when running at the performance level you're used to the power draw should be plenty low enough to make temperature and fan noise not a problem: roughly double the peak CPU performance means you can turn down the power limits a lot and still have a better-performing machine.
Every generation of CPU has high-power and low-power variants. The i9 is a high power variant that generates a lot of heat but what you want is the low power variant.
I recommend looking for a used laptop with a Core Ultra 7 165U (<$500) or a Core Ultra 7 268V (>$1000). Maybe an HP EliteBook. Either one would be faster than your old i9 and run much cooler.
This might be driven by coreboot support?
I really like the detachable webcam gimmick - I'm sure that, like all gimmicks, it could prove frustrating sometimes, but it's a novel way to have both a decent webcam and thin bezels without notches, nose-facing cameras, etc.
I like it both for the peace of mind that the webcam is off, but also because I anyway have a dedicated external webcam both at the office and at home, so I really don't need a webcam lens in the lid except for the rare occasions where I need to take a meeting on the go.
Does it suspend to RAM with echo mem > /sys/power/state and stays there for a couple of weeks on battery?
If not, I will keep my Intel Thinkpad T14 G2, The Last of the Mohicans that can.
Most devices still support S3 sleep, it's just disabled by default as s2idle (modern standby) has become the default. You can almost always re-enable S3 sleep if you really want to, but on modern devices it typically only takes a few seconds to resume from S4 (suspend-to-disk) which technically is safer and more reliable. Also you can always use suspend-then-hibernate if you really want fast resume during the day, but long battery life when it's more than an hour or so.
My Thinkpad p16s does not have s3 sleep. And s2idle lasts for a couple hours before it dies because every device has to sleep before it goes to true idle, but can never get all the USB devices to sleep. It's crap. S3 worked fine and was robust.
Dunno about other manufacturers, but Thinkpads removed S3. Stock BIOS on some T14 G3 had S3 had it, but it was removed by subsequent BIOS updates.
The notebook market is dead for me if the notebook can't sleep on 0.3% battery per hour and if it can't wake up within a second or so.
So far only macbooks and >5 years old Intel notebooks can.
Modern devices generally do not have s3 anymore
I don't know what "most" in your case means, but pretty much none of the new laptops I've seen have S3 support available in their UEFI. And even if you somehow patch it in, the peripherals don't have drivers anymore that would successfully resume.
Coreboot is amazing, more machines should have open firmware--especially those intended to run FOSS OSs.
100% agreed. it upsets me when i see companies like framework advertising themselves front and centre as Linux-first, yet won't sponsor a coreboot port. starlabs, system76 and novacustom actually walk the walk
Framework plans to eventually support coreboot, as far as I am aware. (Or open source the current one they purchased). It just wasn't the main priority. They focused on making a repairable laptops ecosystem first. Switching to different firmware later isn't ruled out.
Starlabs is at least as repairable as framework, older, and coreboot.
they originally announced their intention to open the firmware 4 years ago
https://community.frame.work/t/responded-coreboot-on-the-fra...
Same-size cursor keys (with the whole line and without any distinction) is such an ill-design decision. Nice to show in the presentation slide deck, but hard to actually use blindly.
This is lovely. I'd love it if this or the Framework Pro also had OLED options, though.
My aging Thinkpad P1 (1st Gen) has a great LCD, but it's also the last non-OLED screen in my life, and I don't think I can buy another laptop without it. In fact it would be a purchase decision driver/upgrade incentive for me. This and longer battery life.
Even though I build lots of C++ code, I still don't think I need more than the Xeon in the P1, horse-power wise.
For sure, once you go OLED you don't go back. It's like going back to a mouse with a ball.
You know, I’ve actually gone back to a mouse with a ball. And it’s gorgeous!
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Trackball
I mean you have those ergonomic Logitech trackballs that are praised by devs!
> 01. Removable Webcam With its easy-to-disconnect magnetic connector, you can simply unplug the webcam whenever you want to ensure that no one can access it.
What about the microphone though?
The camera issue has been solved years ago by a simple analog hack of physically obscuring its field of view, with some business units having a physical switch built-in.
The same is much more difficult for a microphone, hence the appeals of privacy-conscious folks about it, mostly unanswered.
So expensive with a one year limited warranty. Come on man :/
Nice but Switzerland and the EU by law require a minimum of a 2 year warranty. You can't sell a device with less.
To consumers. You can sell to businesses.
They don't seem to be trying to stop me from placing an order as a consumer.
One of the best investments I’ve ever made was to get an 8TB drive for my laptop. Never having to worry about disk space again is so nice. Consider it if you’re in the market for a new laptop.
Does it ever worry you that all 8TB could fail in one place? Do you have redundant drives (like two 4TB or four 2TB drives)?
I'd be worried about having all of my storage in one place. I like to back up data to more than one place if it's important, and never have huge on-device storage because if something happens to damage it, I'm assuming it's game over for all on-device storage (rather than only part of it). I'd rather my storage was safe and cozy in some place far from where my laptops go.
But if you're not all that worried and happen to do data-intensive work or something, awesome, 8TB sounds like a dream.
Data only in one place is bad no matter how big the drive is. Sync it to a NAS, PC, online, external drive, other laptop, or multiple of those.
I don't know. I had dozens and dozens NVMe drives and only one 8TB. Guess which one failed? The 8TB one. That hurt.
Finally someone made a laptop with PgUp/PgDn/Home/End column, like Toshiba! Thank you!
I recently switched from Linux to freebsd on my work computer and things have been mostly working. With linux chroot I can use the few apps missing BSD port.
I did this because I manage a fleet of BSD based server (BSD runs zfs and bhyve with VM on it) and I wanted the same base system for me.
I wonder how BSD friendly those laptop are.
In any case I am so happy to see some open hardware solution.
Do these user-configurable laptops come with a mesh bag to hold their parts? Like the camera on the StarFighter, and the modules on a Framework. Would be a cool branding opportunity.
I already like it better than Framework with Framework having a better philosophy of reusability and upgradability. Basically I am undecided. Both are too good.
I've been working from a ARM windows laptop for a year now and have gotten so used to a full day of battery, I don't even bring a charger anymore. I would love a framwork or Starfigher laptop, but I don't feel like the batterylife on intel and amd is there yet?
Looks amazing, it even has Ins key, as if they expect people to actually work on this laptop /s :) . But the price of 4200$ is out of reach for me unfortunately.
Jeez what an amazing month for premium Linux laptops.
What else came out?
Framework pro
Not out yet. On pre orders
FWIW I have had a StarLite Mk IV for three years now and haven't run into a single issue with it (except maybe the speakers being quite poor).
Unfortunately the company stopped releasing firmware updates for it soon after they launched Mk V. I don't know if it can be still built from source for the older devices.
I'm also the happy owner of a StarLite Mk IV. The perfect travel laptop. Thin, light, fanless, excellent keyboard and touchpad, matt screen, rock solid chassis, good battery life. I'm dreading the day when it finally breaks as there's nothing comparable on the market today. I wish they could do another run.
Very different niche from the StarFighter but StarLabs make excellent machines.
Their Horizon model is probably closer to a Mk IV successor than Mk V. I would consider it as an upgrade path.
I like to use laptop in the beach. No glare means I can see it even with the sun light reflecting?
Based on my experience with the System 76 Lemur Pro coming from a Macbook Pro, matte helps a bit. You won't have mirror glare like on the Macbook, but the sun will still wash out the matte screen.
If you want to use it on the beach you will probably need an e-ink display because no laptop screen can compete with the sun. But matte is still infinitely better than glossy for less than ideal conditions such as working on a train where there might be sunlight coming in from the side.
Glossy screens are, in my humble opinion, a stupid gimmick because they look a bit better at ideal viewing conditions. For mobile devices the viewing conditions are most often not ideal, so it really doesn't make any sense unless the screen has to be a touch screen. I have had one laptop with a glossy screen and I ended up putting a glare reducing sticker on it because the glare was intolerable.
I clicked on the link half expecting to see a scale model of the (in)famous Lockheed Starfighter (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-104).
I happen to be looking around for a 15 or 16 inch laptop, but these look pretty unsuitable for me. Odd CPU choices, and no apparent way to configure one with 16GB ram in this time of AI-fueled cost crisis. All but the standard are way out of my budget range - especially considering none have a dGPU. Also for idiosyncratic reasons I need a numeric keypad.
The key on the top right corner of the keyboard being the poweroff button instead of the Delete key gets an instant NACK from me.
3575EUR seems like a steep price for a znver4 processor from 2023 to be honest.
They still make Intel laptops? Sounds awful. A 5 year old M1 Max would give this thing a run for its money.
Edit: it does https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5777vs4585/Intel-Ultra-...
Looks nice ! :) I like the design and name
Not sure who the target market is.. but on the homepage it only lists the CPU's in the era of AI/Models etc I'd put the GPU and VRAM somewhere on mainpage as well.
Even when I view "Tech Specs" still don't see the VRAM ? Just some feedback.
> 5 years of updates
Is this an improvement on how long whatever it's talking about usually gets updates for, or is putting a limit on it at all a bad sign? I've only seen this with regards to mobile phones before.
There are no guarantees your laptop will ever get a single update (let alone 5 years) unless they state as much. Most do not state any guarantee or less than 5 years.
I noticed they offer all the storage upgrades at or below retail cost. Nice.
Opensource firmware?
Does it mean this machine has the potential of having amazing battery life since it can be fully programmed? I am talking as close to MacBook Pro level (not accounting for arm vs intel/amd difference).
The Dell XPS and Framework laptops already far exceed MacBook Pro battery life.
O'rly? Also when suspended to RAM? Framework AMD versions specifically?
The Intel 13th gen will draw ~1% per hour while suspended to RAM.
My findings on it: https://sjg.io/writing/suspend-battery-drain-framework-13-ub...
Thanks for the detailed write-up.
IIRC my Thinkpad T14 G2 has S3 and it draws 0.3% per hour, pretty much in line with what Macbooks draw when sleeping.
The Framework 13 absolutely does not touch the MacBook Pro battery life in any of its current configurations, though the upcoming 13 pro promises to.
I have a Ryzen 5 AI 340 powered machine and average about 6 hours. I might be able to stretch that to 7 if I dimmed the screen a bunch and only did light web browsing.
This is closer battery life to MacBook Neo, not an Air or Pro under the same workload.
I made it a rule of mine to only buy my next hardware upgrades from such companies. This is the future that leads to a human race that is knowledge focused. Closing off technology with contrived schematics and patents encourages the masses to stay ignorant.
More of this please.
No fingerprint sensor.
An ISO keyboard with the big enter key is definitely a plus!
For the price I was expecting actual wifi 7 (802.11be standards compliant) and USB3.2 10 Gbps capability on the type A ports.
looks exactly like my MBP M3 - and that's a compliment!
Very happy to see a 4K display. Framework take note!
that's actually one thing I don't like but they're essentially forcing you to go 4k for the 10khz pwm.
otherwise, why would you want a resolution you're going to scale to 150% or even 200% anyway just to be able to read it anywhere outside?
... and eating into your battery
Would it be possible to hackintosh such a device?
Every new $3000 computer I see just makes me glad I bought a Snapdragon X2 laptop.
Hi. Could you please describe your opinion on the compatibility and stability (especially everything wireless) of the system?
Any public reviews?
Those are nice looking machines. I don't see any mention of high-end GPUs, though. Do you offer any models that include heavy-duty GPUs for the more usually beefier AI stuff?
Performance yet only 64GB of RAM?
Seems late by several years.
If it had 256GB RAM or even better 512GB, I'd consider.
Has almost everything I want, full size cursor + dedicated home/end/pgup/pgdown but fingerprint sensor would have been nice, although linux support for those is dodgy.
numpad where ?
Is it a laptop?
I had a Starbook for three years. It was constantly plauged with power issues. As long as I had it plugged in via the barrel connector, everything was fine. But if I tried to charge it over USB-C, it would often fail to boot, lock up, require hard power cycling, and still not come back stable. If I left it completely shut down for a week, the battery would be dead and I couldn't get it back until it had charged (with the barrel connector charger, it would not charge from dead in USB-C) for at least 10 minutes.
Everything else about the computer I loved, but the power issue often meant it was not available when I wanted it. I eventually sold it on eBay (with full disclosure of the issues).
does anybody do built-in trackballs anymore? I really like those.
you mean like the thinkpad trackpoint?
Not the OP, but some older laptop designs had a small trackball where modern machines have a touchpad, e.g. the early PowerBooks[1]
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_180
I assume they mean an actual roller ball (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Contura )
It is still a crazy question though because if you seen most laptops in the last 15 years there is basically no room for them except on the large workstation thinkpads or large gaming laptops.
Ive always wished for a UHK-style trackball in a laptop: https://uhk.io/product/trackball
https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform
Do you know what kind of bearings that has?
I must also mention that I'm happy to see the UHK has a ball-retention ring; this used to be normal for trackballs but companies moved away for it for some reason.
The MNT Reform has a trackball option.
https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform
Yes, the MNT Reform and Pocket Reform both have trackballs[1]. They're very different products from the StarFighter laptop though, in that they sacrifice a lot of potential processing power in exchange for a platform which is much more amenable to customization.
[1]: https://shop.mntre.com/
Sad for the processor, it has a "16-core Intel Ultra 9 285H" which is from what I understand intel 15th gen, while the 16th gen, "Panther Lake", seems to be the one giving battery life around as good as the M1 in the new Dell laptops.
It would have been better if they didn't make it look a little bit too inspired by the Macbook Pro.
What a boutique criticism
There isn't exactly a lot of design freedom in a black rectangle with a screen a keyboard and a touchpad. A real Macbook copy would include Macbook misfeatures, like:
- control key in wrong place - camera notch - half sized arrow keys
>There isn't exactly a lot of design freedom in a black rectangle with a screen a keyboard and a touchpad
No, every laptop does not look exactly the same and they are not all macbook clones.
It doesn't look exactly the same. Sure, if it had a tiny touchpad with separate buttons or missing indent so that it's inconvenient to open the lid or didn't have stereo speakers or was really thick then it would look even more different than an MBP... If one company nails some design elements before others, why should everyone who gets those elements too be blamed for copying it.
The ones that look more different are generally made of plastic and/or eschew minimalism.
minimalism as a design choice far predates Apple, and constrains design choices substantially.
I think in reality it will look/feel a fair bit different due to the ceramic-coated material.
Asus has similar materials in recent models I believe; I rather like it.
And what design would you rather them emulate?
why?
It doesn't. It looks like a slick laptop, but it is as similar to Macbook Pro as it is to a modern Thinkpad. The hinge in particular stands out and looks like a Thinkpad hinge as opposed to the hidden hinge of a Macbook. Other than that, there is not much design freedom left when the whole industry has kinda agreed that a big trackpad and rounded corners is the way to go.
I don't like the name.
They aren’t US based right? Does that mean tariffs for US shipping?
Are these a good pick for a non-programmer who is interested in Linux but intimidated by it?
Have you tried it out?
https://askubuntu.com/questions/629632/can-you-boot-ubuntu-s...
A long time ago. But I ran into all sorts of issues. It was a struggle getting things like Bluetooth or WiFi working. And I just couldn’t get myself to feeling like I could ‘trust it’. Like that I wouldn’t break it and somehow lose all my data in th process.
That's a reasonable fear! But the solution to that is to set up backups, no matter what the operating system you're on.
You can also use Ventoy to boot the ISOs which is somewhat easier in my view.
Check out System76 and Framework, they're based in the US and ship Linux machines.
Looks like they're UK based. I don't know, but apparently tariffs etc are factored into the shipping fees shown on their site.
If you're not sure if you want to go Linux yet, it's probably best to try a live USB stick of a few distros on your existing hardware. Get a feel for what the interface is like, how things work, how it works on your hardware, etc, without actually changing anything. Seems like a better bet to me than buying all-new hardware.
As the other commenter said, evaluate a live usb with any distribution with KDE Plasma Desktop, for example Fedora, OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, or Endeavour OS (Arch Linux based). You can also try something like Fedora Kinoite or Bazzite, so called immutable distributions which make it really easy to use for non-technical people.
Tried and failed to beat Framework to market. Frankly I'm hopeful that Framework beats this offering out, though I'm happy for the competitive pressure.
Starlabs is older than framework and their machines are *at least" as repairable. I have been using a really good one for 4 years or so. And their firmware is open source.
Oh look, another generic Macbook clone.
Lol these are the most refined Linux flagship hardware manufacturers in the world. No clone.
lol Up to
18 hrs
battery life</i>
if you put it in sleep mode maybe. why do people keep lying about battery life?
A couple weeks ago, Framework livestreamed a rundown of their 13" laptop lasting over 20 hours on a charge. I can believe the 16" gets there too.
That was a Panther Lake based laptop. Lunar Lake laptops can also last well over 12 hours, even in Linux. This StarFighter offers neither Lunar Lake nor Panther Lake, so 18 hours is probably only under really ideal circumstances.
Well, it's running Linux, so close the lid and turn off the screen. Then, SSH into it like a good Linux machine.
With wifi and usage? I have never gotten more than 3 hours with wifi and regular usage. Maybe this one is different.
I reliably get 6 hours out of my Framework 13 with the Ryzen 5 340. And that's with multiple IDE's, 20 browser tabs, full screen brightness. I'm running the latest Fedora without any power saving tweaks.. just stock.
It's not MacBook good but it's much better than 3hrs :)
Light usage on low brightness? Nice to know it will last for a long flight.
No cachyOS or Arch install options. Proposing Manjaro in 2026 is major clueless
I have no experience with cachyOS, so can't comment there, but I don't see the point in offering pre-installed Arch. I'd say most Arch users are fairly picky and opinionated about their setup, and would choose to reinstall anyway.
Can't imagine how tough it must be to be someone who, when offered a choice of nine different operating system, chooses to whine about it
Says nothing about AI capability or even graphics. I am skeptical about the value.
This is satire, right?
No, AI capabilities of some sort are obviously important. But I know a lot of people don't appreciate that.
But you aren't seriously suggesting that graphics hardware is irrelevant are you?
The few things that make me agree with GP:
1. "AI" is a marketing term used by the likes of OpenAI/Anthropic/Google. LocalLLaMa communities prefer to use "LLM" or "model". So for a lot of people "AI" is just a service (see 4.)
2. "AI capability" is an irrelevant spec and marketing slug. The hardware specs will give you the needed infomation to consider a model[0][1].
3. If you'll want to run a model locally, you'd know that a midrange notebook isn't the device to look for. Instead, look at workstations with discrete graphic cards + lots of VRAM (24GB+), Strix Halo APUs or a MacBook with lots of RAM, or some dedicated workstations like the NVIDIA DGX Spark[2].
4. An inference engine can run anywhere, you can pick any LLM hosting service. LLM clients just expect an API endpoint anyway.
[0]: https://www.canirun.ai/
[1]: https://www.caniusellm.com/
[2]: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/products/workstations/dgx-spark...
Off topic but I like your username! Ironically I have matching 2003 CR85 and CR250's but not the 125 :P
Lmao what do you mean the specs are all there
Can I run local LLM models on this? There's no reference to it in the marketing.
You'll have to use your brain unfortunately to figure it out
I don't know how anybody can stand not having a numpad.
What do you use yours for? All I’ve ever missed it for was the default Blender keybinds for the camera perspective
I only use a number pad for playing a few games, and for bulk data entry. Neither of those use cases are something I prefer using my laptop for, and even on my desktops they're rare enough that I'd much rather have the number pad separate and largely out of the way.
What do you use a number pad for often enough to not only see it as mandatory for you, but to leave you unable to imagine how anyone could live without it?
For serious work, I'm docked and using a large monitor, split keyboard, etc. Many people make concessions when on a laptop.
I never used it. Well, I lie, I did use it back in the day for playing some DOS games where you had to share your keyboard with your friend...
But all my keyboards have been TKL over the past 15+ years and I don't miss it. I don't know why anyone needs to use a numpad unless they're in a job where they work a lot with numbers. And if you're not in such a role, what is your hobby exactly that demands so much number punching?
I bought a bluetooth 10-key. I use the home/end keys religiously when editing in an NLE, and it drove me crazy trying to be a road warrior without it. After having the external, I prefer it as it is full size instead of trying to squeeze it into the laptop frame size. So not having the numpad on the laptop is a-okay for me
I do number entry with the number row. 8 fingers > 3 fingers.
I do not understand why a numpad is considered a necessity by some. I never used it when I had them. Do you work in data entry?
Because it's way more convenient to type numbers, and no, you don't need to work in data entry to enter data / appreciate this convenience
Easy - by moving numpad to your main keyboard with a modifier so you don't need to move your hand just to type numbers
Ah yes, I remember those keyboards. Maybe in the 90s?
With the flexibility of software - also in the 20s
I have just configured my keyboard to give me a numpad on UIOJKLM,. if I hold down ';' with my pinky and don't let go immediately.
I never use my numpad. I use the numbers in the top row of the keyboard.
I'd be super happy to yank my numpad out of my laptop, move the keyboard a little bit to the right and center align it with the center of the screen. My head would be centered with the middle of the screen too.
Unfortunately I had to settle with that keyboard because every other laptop was a worse tradeoff.
I've learned to love numpad when I spent some time working in France. On AZERTY layouts you need to press SHIFT for each regular number.
Absolutely hate numberpads on laptops - if you're sitting with the laptop directly in front of you it means your arms and hands are slightly offset to the left for normal typing.
Numpad makes notebooks unnecessarily wide (I don't like widescreen, 4:3 was the best aspect ratio), but classical Thinkpad arrows and home key block layout is what I really miss (and Trackpoint with proper drivers and cursor kinematics as it were in linux circa 2005)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/IBM_Thin...
(though I prefer ISO enter, eg. Hungarian, German or Swedish layout)
I sit...
Looks generic, and has the stereotypical abysmal keyboard and trackpad as any laptop made in the past 10+ years. Put this in a room with a few other laptops and it'd be hard to pick it out from the crowd. The only thing it has going for it are the raw specs, but it's eventually marred by the price for what is a poor typing and trackpad experience.
They claim it has a haptic trackpad, so I don't think that's what most manufacturers use.
> Looks generic, and has the stereotypical abysmal keyboard and trackpad as any laptop made in the past 10+ years.
I wasn't aware that generic laptops had moved to haptic touchpads and up-firing speakers over ten years ago...
The hardware is designed in house and is the only trackpad that approaches macbook levels