ryandrake 1 hour ago

Not just Amazon, too. It feels like all of big tech (and some smaller firms) have simultaneously gone insane. Imagine if your CEO woke up one day and told the company: "We need to encourage travel spending. Please book as many business trips as you can, and spend as much money as possible. Fly first class to our satellite offices! Take limos instead of Ubers! Eat at fine restaurants! Make sure you are constantly traveling. In fact, we are going to make Travel Spending part of your annual performance review: If you don't spend enough on business travel, you'll get a low rating!"

We are living in a totally bonkers time.

  • almost_usual 1 hour ago

    It’s preposterous, companies are blindly funding slop and the product is fool’s gold.

  • isk517 1 hour ago

    I know some that was told to try and use AI more on the job so they created some agent to just burn tokens and ended up using about 10x what the next highest employee used. Buddy expected to get shit but instead got an accolade and was asked to give a short talk to the other employees about how they could match their success.

  • lbrito 59 minutes ago

    Exactly this.

    And the fact that it is an industry-wide meme at this point makes bright red flashing lights and klaxons go off on my mind that a catastrophic reckoning can't be too far. There's not enough money in the world to keep this up for too long.

  • bluGill 52 minutes ago

    My dad worked at a company that had their own travel agency (early 90s when you needed a travel agent for reasons that no longer apply), and he was often booked on the more expensive flight because the travel agency made more money. More than once he could have got first class for less on a different flight but company policy didn't allow him to fly first class.

    We have always been living in bonkers time.

  • dehrmann 7 minutes ago

    It's more like "We really value face-to-face interaction, so we're going to track that with your total travel spend. We don't want to get in the way, so there's no budget."

MrCharismatist 2 hours ago

Like six months ago we got a presentation from an AWS guy on the AI tooling available and how it fit with our particular use cases.

At one point seemingly out of nowhere he pointed out on his screen share "Look at how many tokens I've used this month. I run so much Opus." It was a number that was offensively large.

I remember thinking "That's a really odd flex, this crap is so expensive the fact that you use so much should be a red flag"

He demonstrated a number of Claude Code use cases he had to manage and tweak AWS infrastructure that made me, the old greybeard sysadmin older than the internet think "You've used AI to do something that was a single command."

So this story makes sense. They were being encouraged to just blast away at it six plus months ago.

  • funimpoded 2 hours ago

    I notice a lot of Cursor's suggestions are just stuff a linter should auto-fix.

    But if you hit "tab" it'll claim that as an AI-edited line, LOL.

    (A lot of the rest of it is stuff I could already have been doing just as fast if I'd ever bothered to learn to use multiple cursors, learned vim navigation, or set up some macros—I never did because my getting-code-on-the-screen speed without those has never been slow enough to hold anything up, in practice)

    • jjice 1 hour ago

      Cursor absolutely tries to maximize what they claim is "AI-edited" and it's nonsense a lot of the time. If it writes a function and then I got in and edit that function, it claims my edits _and_ any net-new lines I add above or below the function.

  • throwway120385 1 hour ago

    I think you'll find that a lot of big investment companies are buried to the hilt in a lot of tech companies and also OpenAI and Anthropic. So you can do the math on where the directive is coming from and why it's not particularly careful or measured.

  • Our_Benefactors 1 hour ago

    > You've used AI to do something that was a single command

    Yes, and that’s a good thing! This is in fact where a lot of AI value lies. You dont need to know that command anymore - knowing the functional contract is now sufficient to perform the requisite work duties. This is huge!

    • malfist 1 hour ago

      Is it? If the LLMs change broke something do you know enough to fix it?

    • miyoji 1 hour ago

      It's also several hundred times more expensive.

    • bluefirebrand 1 hour ago

      > You dont need to know that command anymore

      I find it hard to read "You can do things without knowing things" as a positive improvement in work, society, life, anywhere

    • quikoa 1 hour ago

      I can't tell if this comment is sarcasm or not. If you let AI run commands you don't understand (especially in production) you may end up with some nasty surprises.

    • mrbungie 53 minutes ago

      Once I learn a command that is both repeatable and useful, I prefer to either keep it in my mind or in my aliases. Thank you.

    • funimpoded 45 minutes ago

      Not even joking that the main benefit I've seen from "AI" for editing code is that it lets me quickly do all the things I could already have been doing just as quickly if I'd ever bothered to learn to use my tools.

      Of course I lose about as much time as I save to its fuck-ups, so I'd still have been better off learning to actually use a text editor properly. Though (as I mentioned in a another post) part of why I've never done that in 25ish years of writing code for pay is that my code-writing speed has never been too slow for any of the businesses I've worked in, i.e. other things move slowly enough it never mattered.

  • mrbungie 54 minutes ago

    I still don't know how to reconcile these reports with what other people say about GenAI-agentic assisted engineering being the only way of working nowadays, especially in startups.

    Probably there is no dichotomy going on and it depends on multiple factors, but it seems so weird to see reports that are so different between each other.

laweijfmvo 35 minutes ago

I work at a FAANG (not Amazon), and have heard this a lot, both internally and publicly. Except, never officially from anyone that mattered (leadership). It always starts with a rumor and/or someone (internal) creating a dashboard/metric, and blows up from there. I've even heard leaders proclaim that it's NOT what they're looking at, and that you better NOT be wasting those expensive tokens.

Now, they might be; they've certainly used silly metrics in the past (LoC, commit count, etc.) without ever fully acknowledging it. But I don't believe that it's as simple as more tokens = more better.

  • wolvoleo 19 minutes ago

    In our place it is really a thing and comes from leadership. They feel like they spent a lot on copilot and they want to see people using it.

  • tyleo 17 minutes ago

    I feel like it depends on the leader. I've definitely seen leaders value LoC beyond reason and cause worse, bloated codebases by rewarding cowboys with 10k line PRs.

    Big companies have thousands of leaders. Many good, many bad.

Qem 23 minutes ago

It's a shame AI now has a universal basic jobs[1] program, but humans still not. Companies are paying AI to dig holes, so other AI can fill them.

[1] https://locusmag.com/feature/cory-doctorow-full-employment/

  • philipallstar 22 minutes ago

    We didn't. The USSR had 100% employment long ago[0], and all the poverty that goes with it.

    This isn't like that, as it isn't funded through taxes. This is private companies experimenting with their money, and risking downstream cost increases that may cause people to go elsewhere, as they do when they try anything new.

    This is much better than just funding people regardless of productivity through forced taxes.

    [0] https://nintil.com/the-soviet-union-achieving-full-employmen...

    • Qem 5 minutes ago

      > We didn't. The USSR had 100% employment long ago[0], and all the poverty that goes with it.

      I don't think USSR poverty rates surpassed those of Tsarist Russia that preceded them. To their credit, I think ideologic competition between capitalist and communist blocks was part of what allowed improvement of life conditions of workers in capitalist countries, after WWII. Fear of revolutions avoided one-percenters taking all productivity gains in the period. Thay had to share some to keep guillotines away. As soon as things went south in the USSR, from the 70s onwards, and capitalism took over the whole world, lacking any sort of viable extant competition, we reverted back to the old norm, the workers were denied their share of the productivity gains since then, and here are us now. A regime premised on free competition was undone by lack of competition to itself.

onion2k 2 hours ago

I'd bet that the goal is for people to 'game' it though. By pushing people to use AI more they'll try it, experiment with it, 'waste' time on it ... and from that they'll learn about it. That's the end goal.

They're using tokens for pointless stuff right now in order to figure out use cases where it helps. You can't do that without also learning where it doesn't help.

My company is doing the same thing.

  • this_user 1 hour ago

    That is exactly the point. It may be wasteful, but it's the fastest way to explore how AI may actually be useful to your business. Even if 80% of employees are just wasting tokens, you still have 20% who are figuring it out.

    • jordanb 49 minutes ago

      Even if that were true it'd mean that current AI usage is overshooting actual, productive use by 5x. This is a problem when all the AI projections are that the current state is the minimum and future usage will be 10+x.

    • mrbungie 49 minutes ago

      It is difficult to believe that you can cobra effect yourself into greatness. I'd rather say the most useful perk for companies doing this is the AI-washing adoption metrics they can report, which will hopefully (for them) increase valuations.

pjc50 1 hour ago

Lots of people reporting their "I had to use up my tokens, so I burned them on worthless stuff" stories. Incredible thing to do in a climate emergency. Push harder guys, maybe we can hit 3C warming?

This reminds me of the story of how the USSR nearly made whales extinct to meet a quota for whale meat that nobody wanted to eat.

  • lmkg 1 hour ago

    This is why we're clear-cutting forests to build new data centers? Not even for "real" productivity gains, but just for the sake of using the tokens.

    • Lord-Jobo 1 hour ago

      Bullshit work has hit escape velocity, won’t be long now before we have huge warehouses filled with people doing sudoku for their daily food allowance, and that’s just how our entire economy functions.

      How are we sliding face first into “snowpiercer but dumber”?

    • buellerbueller 52 minutes ago

      Gotta scale and then IPO those startups, so the VCs can cash out profitably.

  • wolvoleo 1 hour ago

    Yeah but what can we do. I don't want to be punished by work either.

    Luckily I work in app management and I know they can only see the last date used so if I just put in one query per day I'm good.

    But I'm so sick and tired of this AI hype :(

  • jordanb 53 minutes ago

    I've been noticing how our economy keeps getting more Soviet as it becomes more top-down. We basically have central planning now with all the pathologies inherent in that system, but unlike the soviets we just have a bunch of guys who happened to get rich or bribe the right people running our GOSPLAN.

  • Insimwytim 6 minutes ago

    > USSR nearly made whales extinct

    USSR barely accounted for 15% of the world caught amount (with Japan as the leader).

    > that nobody wanted to eat

    unsubstantiated.

nateglims 1 hour ago

Within Amazon, token usage is gamified if you use Kiro and your team isn't billed for it in the same way you are billed for AWS or have to account for your capacity in older systems. I've credibly heard of people gaming this internal ranking before anyone paid attention to it. There are also tons of enthusiasts doing all kinds of internal projects and sharing them.

There's definitely some pressure from managers when they hear about N00% productivity boosts in internal presentations, but where I am at they would figure out if you were making up tasks rather than working pretty quickly and the pressure comes from aggressive deadlines and a shift from the yearly OP1 process to a more agile one.

1vuio0pswjnm7 2 minutes ago

The "success" of "AI" depends on usage

Some HN commenters believe the purpose of "AI" is data collection, not providing a dubiously valuable "service" for a fee. This is how "Big Tech" operates. Use is "free" (the carrot, the bait). No matter how valuable anyone thinks these "services" are, advertisers are generally the only paying customers

When the data collected is used to train and improve "AI", in addition to selling ad services, the focus on usage makes even more sense

On the contrary, some people will advance storylines about increased "productivity" but these claims have not been supported by evidence, only anecdotes (marketing)

mjr00 1 hour ago

I've heard similar stories from AWS and other non-AWS FAANG employees. All of the token leaderboards have a "this doesn't count toward your performance review" disclaimer, but there's an implied nudge nudge, wink wink after that statement.

One person I've talked to has someone in their org who is running GasTown and chews through tokens 24/7. They don't contribute very much, but they're comfortably in the #1 spot.

shriek 48 minutes ago

When are they going to admit that they over invested in AI and somehow have to justify that spend with usage down our throat?

AMerrit 2 hours ago

I've done similar at my job where management wants us to use all of our tokens before they expire. I usually set it to documentation tasks and other minor tasks just to eat up tokens.

  • rtkwe 2 hours ago

    At least that nominally creates some value at the end of the day. Documentation is the thing everyone wants but no one has time/desire to create. My most recent token heavy task was having an agent write unit tests for coverage on a little graphAPI tool I'd written a bit ago to satisfy SonarQube.

    • sheept 19 minutes ago

      People don't want to read LLM-generated docs though. It'll lack the context to justify why things were designed the way they were, and there's always a risk of hallucination so you still have to verify the documentation's claims, since the person who published it likely did not scrutinize it.

  • funimpoded 2 hours ago

    There's really no end to dot-language diagrams you can have it make. Call graphs, package dependency maps, let it try to figure out an architecture diagram, whatever.

    • gdulli 1 hour ago

      Giving it busywork that you don't have the time or wherewithal to check carefully sounds like a disaster. Rather than introduce content that will be partially wrong and cause confusion if it's ever read, I'd consume the credits and send the output to /dev/null.

      • funimpoded 1 hour ago

        Just title it "draft". Odds are nobody will look at it anyway.

        Add a pre-commit hook to re-create the diagrams on every commit (in case anything changed, of course), that way you can really burn tokens and look good to management.

swader999 56 minutes ago

People need to start yelling, throwing things and publicly mocking execs that do this. What is wrong with you all? I do this (except the throwing) and I get nothing but respect. If you've been a good little soldier for years, done nothing but deliver and then you raise your ire people will listen.

If you can't change your company, change your company!

anthonj 2 hours ago

Let it write unit tests for every single function in the codebase lol

I've chosen the wrong profession.

throwmeaway876 21 minutes ago

What's the root cause of these ridiculous decisions being taken at tech corporations? Constantly, they fall into fads like these that everyone with a brain knows make no sense but still many companies decide to follow them. For example: RTO -> what's the point of this shit? we never knew for sure but higher ups at most tech companies suddenly decided that RTO was the way to go forward despite all the downsides. Another example: DEI policies, some of them were very non-sensical.

I believe there has to be some downward pressure on these executives to take these decisions but I would like to know where it's coming from exactly and what's the logic behind them. Is it some big institution like Blackrock which has leverage on many of these companies? That's always been my bet but I never knew for sure.

  • pyrolistical 8 minutes ago

    Crappy managers don’t know (or actively avoid) how to measure business value from individuals. So they need you to be in the office so they can physically see if you are putting in the effort.

    Tokens is just yet another proxy for business value.

    The problem they face is if everybody is judge by business value in dollars, crappy managers are the first to go

devmor 9 minutes ago

I don’t even understand the point of making up tasks. Surely there’s some moonshot frustration project in your workday you could have an agent plugging away at, even if it’s unsuccessful.

rambojohnson 1 hour ago

I have colleagues at prime video who consult AI the way medieval clerks once consulted omens, generating entire chains of speculative labor after ritual examinations of any of their given codebases. no real or new initiatives / innovations are being pushed forward, and thats rumored to be happening in other departments as well.

netdevphoenix 1 hour ago

Hasn't Anthropic being experiencing issues due to extremely high usage? Being their investor, you would think Amazon wouldn't do Anthropic dirty by weakening their ability to handle user traffic

  • nateglims 1 hour ago

    Amazon runs anthropic models in it's own DCs with Bedrock.

mattas 1 hour ago

Waiting for the YC startup in the next batch that provides tokenmaxxing-as-a-service.

wolvoleo 1 hour ago

This is coming to my workplace too. They send us angry reminders if we don't use copilot in ms office every day :( I just type Hello to it.

mandeepj 1 hour ago

Being an investor in Anthropic, Amazon must have a preferred billing rate, but others do not. No wonder their revenue shot up so much, so fast, because of BS goals like those.

manesioz 2 hours ago

Token-driven development

brightball 1 hour ago

Goodhart's Law in effect right there.

tyleo 44 minutes ago

This is foolish. High token use is associated with worse output. If you fill your models context you are going to be using a lot more context but the labs literally put out charts of how the models degrade at high context use.

This is analogous to measuring productivity by LoC output.

  • drivingmenuts 12 minutes ago

    > This is analogous to measuring productivity by LoC output

    True, but it looks like productivity to people whose own productivity is measured by how busy their subordinates appear to be.

almost_usual 1 hour ago

Corporate tech has accelerated into a preposterous trajectory.

Burn resources at all costs to appear productive and use proxy metrics to measure success.

Fire productive employees to ensure we have resources to fund the proxy metrics.

AI slop fool’s gold is the product.

2OEH8eoCRo0 39 minutes ago

Use Vim or you're fired!!

  • d_philla 24 minutes ago

    this one is legit the right call, though

par 1 hour ago

Narrator: “it wasn’t just Amazon”

kittikitti 1 hour ago

There are some secret random seeds that will prevent the end token and just keep generating forever. This will ruin your hardware though.

blindriver 1 hour ago

This is what I do. I tell AI to go through every file in my project, identify up to 10 bugs per file, and then write the markdown with the name of the file plus "bugfix". This takes about 2 hours. Then I delete all the files with the suffix "bugfix" and then do it again.

  • drivingmenuts 9 minutes ago

    You should probably create an agent to make agents whose jobs are to figure out how to maximize the token usage (and one whose job is to calculate the minimum token usage, so it doesn't look like a boondoggle).

buellerbueller 53 minutes ago

This seems like AI is the new ponzi scheme.

jknoepfler 22 minutes ago

If GDP is going up, we must be wealthier and more productive, right? Surely? (/s)

421986 2 hours ago

New proposed corporate slogan: "Tokens must roll for victory!"

The original (third reich): "Wheels must roll for victory!"

It will end in the same manner.