Thanks HN for 15 years of support and helping me find my life's work
Tomorrow is the 15th anniversary of the first day of the Recurse Center (https://www.recurse.com/)
My cofounders and I did YC all the way back in the Summer of 2010, with the initial idea of building "OkCupid for jobs." That idea quickly fizzled, and we spent the better part of a year pivoting between other ideas that also failed.
Finally, we made something that we wanted ourselves: a self-directed programming retreat, where people built fun projects, contributed to open source, and helped each other become better programmers.
After running two small batches, we launched on HN[1] and got an incredible reception.
That post on HN helped us reach beyond our personal networks and meet programmers from around the world, many of whom have since become friends. HN brought us the majority of people who came to our next few batches, and in the years since, HN has remained our #2 source of applicants (after word of mouth).
Alas, pg's comment[2] on HN when we launched turned out to be prescient: Running free programming retreats isn't a billion-dollar business, but it's still a worthwhile thing to do, and has positively impacted over 3,000 people so far. And 15 years on I still wake up every day excited to keep working on it.
So, thanks HN, for helping make the Recurse Center possible, and for helping me find my life's work.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3435183
[2] "This sounds like a crazy plan for a startup, I realize, but this is the right sort of crazy. In fact, the way the Hackruiters think about Hacker School is a lot like the way we initially thought about YC: if it doesn't make money, it will at least have been a benevolent thing to do."
Congrats Sonali, Nick, Dave & everyone else! I had an incredible time with you all in NY more than 10 years ago, it was so cool, and I'm still thinking of it very fondly. Spent my days hacking away in the space near Canal Street and the nights and weekends exploring NYC with other Recursers, visiting museums, parks and venturing out to buy cheap dumplings by the dozen. I was quite poor back then but I enjoyed my life so much, had a tiny room at the Kolping house on the Upper East Side which was very run down and tiny but also very cheap, basically just went there for sleeping and spent every other minute in the space and outside. No distractions, no possessions beyond my laptop, no responsibilities, simple but happy times. And then in 2021 I found my dream job at DuckDuckGo through RC, been working there for almost five years now! Thanks for everything and great to see it's still going strong!
Congrats! I very much enjoyed my time at Recurse Center back when it was Hacker School and idly daydream about returning some time. Thanks for making something so great!
I loved my time at RC. It changed me a lot. I wrote several blog posts about different projects and my time during my batch. I would strongly suggest applying if you like computers and want to talk about them constantly while building cool stuff.
https://www.lowimpactfruit.com/p/rainy-citycom-a-side-projec...
https://www.lowimpactfruit.com/p/zork-bench-an-llm-reasoning...
https://www.lowimpactfruit.com/p/my-return-statement
Can you tell us what why "OkCupid for jobs" failed?
I run a problem validation platform and 'OkCupid for jobs'[1] is consistently the most visited need-gap in the platform.
Congratulations on 15 years of Recurse Center!
[1] https://needgap.com/problems/363?gift=Z2lmdHwzNjN8MTc4NDQ1Mz... (gift pass link valid for 24 hours).
I like the definition of social rules [0]. I also wonder whether the roof rule was written preemptively or retrospectively -- I hope the former.
I have my own thanks to give to HN. It's connected me to interesting people, online and IRL. It's led to some very strong friendships. It's led me to multiple job opportunities, and usually the better ones. It's changing of course, but I've had a great time in this community so far, and that deserves thanks.
0: https://www.recurse.com/social-rules
> I also wonder whether the roof rule was written preemptively or retrospectively -- I hope the former.
Presume you're referring to [1], not the page you linked, and one might be inclined to accuse you of __feigning surprise__ but if not: using the roof is a quite common expectation in mid-rise buildings in big cities like NY, though not usually in a building you don't yourself own/lease in.
1. https://www.recurse.com/code-of-conduct
Why would you think they are talking about an entirely different page and topic?
Well there is no “roof rule” on the page they linked
It might have been AutoCorrect, and the “social rules” the original comment makes hundred times more sense that way
The social rules page links to the code of conduct, which contains a rule about the roof. The most sensible interpretation to me is that OP wanted to comment on both, possibly forgetting that they had to follow a link to the roof rule, or maybe actively considering both pages to be a single unit.
That would be the"strongest interpretation" of OPs comment, which the local guidelines prefer us to respond to.
How did you connect with people from hn and made irl friendships with them?
I'm surprised by the "you are not allowed to be surprised, ever" rule. It puts me off of recurse entirely.
I shouldn't even need to explain why as it should be self-evident that policing/banning a completely natural and sometimes highly beneficial emotion/reaction is beyond problematic.
It seems like an XY problem - they implemented it to solve a genuine problem, without understanding the problem.
Like, the canonical example they give is
> Dan: What’s the command line?
> Carol: Wait, you’ve never used the command line?
Surely everyone can imagine at least two versions of Carol.
1. Condescending and dismissive. Indeed, that's not behaviour anyone should be tolerating.
2. Thrilled to be able to introduce someone to something new. She might follow that question up with "oh come on over here, let me show you! This will change your life." and proceed to try to teach terminal stuff. Isn't this the best sort of teacher, someone who is infectiously passionate about something?
Dan may still respond negatively to Carol2, but that's Dan's problem - he needs a therapist of some sort to address whatever insecurities he has.
Now, you might say "The rule is about FEIGNED surprise", which is Carol1. But it explicitly says
> When someone acts surprised when you don’t know something, it doesn’t matter whether they’re pretending to be surprised or actually surprised.
Then goes on to describe the version of Dan that needs therapy
> The effect is the same: the next time you have a question, you’re more likely to keep your mouth shut. An accurate name for this rule would be no acting surprised when someone doesn’t know something,
No, that's not how I or any other well-adjusted person would react.
A better name for the rule is "don't be a dick. Everyone is here to help each other learn and grow" (and there might be a separate rule/policy/resource about how people who have not yet learned how to positively and productively control their emotions - which I am not denigrating, simply pointing out reality - can seek assistance with that as well).
In the end, IT DEPENDS. But there's apparently no room for such nuance at Recurse...
There's no rule against being surprised, and especially not against _ever_ being surprised. They are asking people not to express surprise, real or not, when responding to a question, as a courtesy to the person asking. Like: Keep your surprise in check in situations when it's not helping.
I don't think that's too much to ask, just like it's generally considered preferable to not chew with your mouth open when in company, or talk to people with food in your mouth.
They even acknowledge that they expect these rules to not be followed all the time.
I'm surprised that you read it as a general prohibition of being surprised. ;)
Edit: Sorry, wrote my reply before I saw your substantial edits where you clarify your position and distinguish between "positive" and "negative" surprise. I agree there's a better way express surprise. The rule clearly wants people to avoid putting other people down by creating a feeling of "wow, how can you not know this". That's the spirit of the rule, and I guess it could be expressed better. I don't think they'd have a problem if someone managed to turn the surprise into a positive, but to do that, it's good to be mindful that it's often perceived negatively.
Sorry for the ninja edits. Writing from phone and didn't think there'd be people replying right away.
Seems like we're in agreement. Still, for a project that's been around for seemingly a very long time, it's hard to imagine that they haven't had ample time and feedback to vastly improve the wording of it all.
> In the end, IT DEPENDS. But there's apparently no room for such nuance at Recurse...
"One thing that often surprises people about the social rules is that we expect people to break them from time to time."
Sounds like there's plenty of room for nuance. They're guidelines. That you spent several paragraphs considering and articulating the difference between a positive social interaction and a negative one means the guideline is probably a good one, even if they didn't bother to write several paragraphs of nuance for each point themselves (which is perfectly reasonable, because brevity has its own value).
But the fact remains that the rule is terrible. It SHOULD BE broken, regularly. If a rule should be regularly broken, it's not a good rule.
I wrote a brief alternative that serves vastly better and doesn't need paragraphs of nuanced explanation, and I didn't even put much thought into it.
That they haven't done so in 15+ years suggests that they think the rule is well-written.
At first i found odd that pricing is nowhere in the website, but then i found it burried under FAQ (free!) - is it to weed out people who are focusing on free rather than going deeper into the experience?
> How much does attending the Recurse Center cost? > RC is free for everyone. You will never receive a bill from RC.
> How can you afford to make RC free? > RC has a built in recruiting agency. Companies pay to hire RC alumni. This payment never comes out of your salary.
Yes, we want people to be making an intentional choice to come to RC, and not just to do it because it's free, so we don't lead with that. Our hope is that people will get excited about the idea, and then be pleasantly surprised when they discover that it's completely free.
(While we don't like to lead with being free, we also don't mean to completely bury that fact -- e.g., we do have it on the front page, albeit at the very bottom. Perhaps we should make this a little more prominent. Thanks for the feedback!)
I really like this idea, but I’m not clear how the logistics work out. It’s “free” but 1.5 - 3 months in NYC is not cheap and would mean carrying double rent for that period of time on top of living expenses. Is there financial assistance or are participants expected to cover all of their own costs? If so doesn’t that make this only accessible to those quite well off already? That is, those who can afford to take off 1.5-3 months while covering the cost of living in one of the most expensive cities in the world. I see there’s a remote option but the in-person aspect of this really feels key to the experience.
Really not trying to be a spoil sport because the idea is incredible and worthwhile but I couldn’t find the answers looking at your website.
I think it's more for folks who were making ~150k starting in 2012-2018. Most of them can afford to keep a place in new york and take a sabbatical.
So, tis for leets, not for folks…
https://www.recurse.com/virtual-rc
> I see there’s a remote option but the in-person aspect of this really feels key to the experience.
It might have been more successful in a lower cost of living state.
Hadn't heard of this before but its a cool idea. I often take my own little "programming retreats" and go to another city for a week and work out of a nice coworking space for a sense of focus and engagement with my work.
My time at RC has genuinely changed my life. I joined my first batch expecting to dust some rust off after being in management at my last gig, and found a community I will cherish for the rest of my life!
If you looking for community in tech I can't think of a better place.
To 15 more!
Thanks for making Recurse so awesome Nick, and it was great running into you at demo day.
I learned so much and made great friends at my six weeks in Brooklyn.
Without Recurse Center I probably wouldn't have made it into YC with a startup of my own today. Long live RC!
I had the chance to work with a bunch of Recurse alumni over the past 4 years, they have all been amazing, brilliant engineers and overall great people :)
While I'm still waiting for the right moment in my own life to do my own Recurse Center retreat, I have had the pleasure of hiring and working with several RC alums over the years and in every instance have found them to be high-quality developers and interesting people to boot. Big congrats to RC for 15 years!
Congratulations on 15 years! Recurse Center has had an incredible impact on the programming community. Thanks for investing in people instead of just chasing growth. Here's to many more years!
I wish something like Recurse existed in Cupertino, I've always admired the program. Congrats on this milestone, most HN alumni don't make it past a decade.
It's very far from the same thing, but there's Hacker Dojo in Mountain View if you're looking for people irl to meet up with.
RC is a great community and I will be forever grateful to them for introducing me to several good friends that are still in my life 10 years later.
Ah! I so wanted to go to the recurse center when I was between jobs, but I was too nervous to push my start date back a significant amount. I really hope I can do it one day. It sounds so awesome!
Congrats! I'd be curious to hear what changed (and what didn't) with applicants over the last 15 years.
I feel like the programming community is very different than in the early 2010s – when's the last time you've seen a coworker brag about using vim – but I can't really put my finger on what changed exactly.
I resemble that remark!
> when's the last time you've seen a coworker brag about using vim
Are you suggesting these people have increased or decreased in quantity? I feel like I've met more vim/neovim/tmux/theprimagen/tool-rewritten-in-rust geeks with every new job.
Congratulations! From time to time I visit your website and consider applying when between jobs but never did. Might try this year :)
Love to see someone having success and fulfilling their dreams, congratz!
I just love that this exists. Learning about it for the first time here, it was such a joy reading the website, watching the videos and understanding the school’s philosophy. Even how they define what a successful applicant looks like, and commitment to diversity brought a smile to my face. Maybe one day…
Thanks RC! I went back when it was Hacker School! Grateful that period of my life - grew so much!
Congrats!! I remember growing up in Italy and really really wanting to attend Hacker School but couldn’t afford to. It resonated a lot with me and make me want to keep learning; I am sure you are still having that impact on others today, it’s great to see it’s still around!
I attended a Recurse Center batch, and while I understand that others had amazing experiences, mine was quite bland.
I can't blame anyone but myself for this.
Most of the other attendees were intelligent or highly self-motivated, or both. Many people seemed to connect instantly, forming small work groups, sharing project ideas, and even going out for lunch or dinner together. They were constantly talking about how awesome Zulip was (is?) [*] and engaged in a constant stick-measuring contest to see whose weekly project would make it to Hacker News’ top 30. At times, it felt like I had joined some sort of mini-cult. I know it wasn’t like that at all; it was just the visuals from an outsider in a completely different culture. As far as I can remember, people were very friendly, willing to help others whenever they were stuck, and happy to study and tackle challenging problems together. There were lots of learnings floating around the working space. Sadly, it didn’t work for me at all, and years later, I still don’t know why exactly.
Perhaps it was the fast pace of New York City and SoHo itself? Or the rudeness of passersby, especially the police officers who couldn’t be bothered even if I just wanted to ask for directions? Or the dirtiness of the streets? The constant noise from cars honking all the time? The strange people in the Subway? The ubiquitous unhealthy food at every corner? Healthy food was difficult to find, at least for someone new to the city, and when accessible, it was unaffordable. Multiple times, I found myself working in the Recurse Center workspace with an empty stomach, which obviously exacerbated the bad experiences, but I can’t even complain about that because they often had free pizza (once, twice a week?) but obviously, pizza is unhealthy, so I never accepted.
Overall, I had a very bad experience, but I believe nothing was Recurse Center’s fault; it was mine. I’m not entirely sure what I expected when I joined, but I hope this serves as a warning to future attendees to prepare themselves before joining, especially if you are not familiar with American culture, and particularly with New York.
[*] https://zulip.com (years later, I still don’t understand why people love Zulip so much)
I respect your opinion and experience, but FWIW for the readers, I had the completely opposite experience.
The batch did divide into groups. Some people were learning functional programming, others focused on Transformers architecture, while yet others on dynamic programming. But I quickly found a small group of people who were building things that I was interested in, games and AI applications.
In the unstructured time I was able to set my own goals, ship a lot, write a lot, and give a lot of talks on topics that are very interesting to me.
I didn't expect or get any free food from the Recurse Centre -- I was in New York, I had the world's cuisines available to me. I often went on lunch along with other RC members to reasonably affordable places within walking distance.
RC is not a college course with exams and a fixed syllabus -- It was unstructured and self-directed -- and that's what made it so special.
I know one or two other people who have similar feelings to you (bland experience, wish they had connected more with the people). That is why in my advice for people considering Recurse Center (https://jcmorrow.com/recurse/) I encourage people not to come in too attached to a project.
I'm not sure who you are, but I'm sorry that RC was a bad experience for you. I appreciate your sharing your experience so respectfully, and I hope you've since found other communities or opportunities that are better a better fit for you!
The competitors to Zulip are Slack and Discord, maybe Matrix/IRC. The question is how do you group subjects and sub-subjects aka threading and Zulip forces the user to pick both explicitly. This results in an easier to follow conversation. Eg in the 3d printing channel there's a modeling thread and a filament thread, so if you want to see stuff about filaments, you don't see the conversation about modeling unless you specifically go over to that thread. Meanwhile, Slack's threads are part of the channel, so you can go into a channel, post a message, and half the conversation is in the channel itself, and half the conversation is in a thread. So you're forced to read all of slack to keep up with the conversation. At the end of the day, it's about signal to noise, and Zulip's UX raises signal.
I never thought about it this way but this is true. But why can’t you delete things?
New York is... New York. I've spent a lot of time there, and even lived there for a summer. I was at a board meeting down there recently and a new young ex officio member basically asked "How do people deal with the confusion?" It is what it is. And it used to be worse.
Everyone I’ve met personally who attended RC was insufferable. Condescending to the point they couldn’t disguise their contempt for people who they thought knew less. So extreme to the point they simply refused to learn from other people. One even literally bullied a teammate to tears.
Some of the best engineers I worked at got their start in programming at the recurse center... thank you for the good you've done in this world!
You guys changed many lives including my own.
I’m really grateful for the time I spent at the recurse center! Thank you for all the work that goes into making such a special community.
Recurse is an incredible community. Thanks for everything you’ve done for the NYC and broader tech ecosystem!
Will you consider franchising or expanding to other countries?
congratulation! i first time know this. and i am curious what RC is like for remote participant? also, i would like to apply!
Congrats
Awesome story, thanks for sharing!
HN wouldn’t be HN without Dang. Thank you Dang.
Never heard of recurse before but what a charming idea. Seems like you've found something amazing to do in life. Wholesome posts like OP are much welcome in tech. Updooted.
Congrats, helping people improve their lives and for their loved ones has its own return.
ur welcome