A bit ago I accidentally bought a Keychron keyboard that didn't have QMK support, but then found that someone had ported it anyway, and I was able to flash it and fix some problems I had (the main one being that it seems like the default firmware only scans a single row of keys while asleep, possibly to save energy, but I want any keypress to wake the computer.) Maybe it's not perfect, but the community around open source keyboard firmware is great, it's a good example of how open source is beneficial for end users, especially power users.
And, in an era where vendor software and firmware for all kinds of devices is constantly having vulnerabilities, it is possible the liability of doing custom shit will eventually outweigh whatever benefits hardware companies seem to think it has, versus just having industry standards and free software instead. But, maybe that is wishful thinking.
My only complaint with Keychron is that of 5 or so keyboards I've owned from them I wound up having to resolder 3 different hotswap sockets on 2 different keyboards right out of the box. That is... Not a fantastic failure rate. OTOH, they are otherwise an unambiguously great value, with materials and build quality that feels pretty impressive for the cost, QC issues notwithstanding.
I bought a K4 Nordic version, only to learn none of their software supports it. So i can't reconfigure the firmware.
The keyboard has swapped Super/Alt (Windows/Alt) on the windows layout which is so annoying. I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it, but i curse the engineer that burned the prom every day.
That sucks, the main reason I like KeyChron is the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows! I wouldn't buy another keyboard without this feature TBH.
Yeah on the mac it works fine. The keyboard just shipped with the Left Alt and Left Windows key in the correct positions, but they are mapped opposite in the firmware. Imagine how maddening it was in the beginning.
If you're not aware, you can remap modifier keys in System Settings on macOS. It doesn't have individual settings for left/right versions of a modifier key, so keep it in whichever mode has the modifiers on left/right paired with each other correctly, and then swap their functions to the right ones.
GP’s point is that many keyboards these days come with a Mac/Windows switch, and one of the things that switch does is swap the keycodes sent by the Alt and Win keys—the “Mac” behaviour is exactly what you’re describing. (The other thing it does is toggle FnLock for the F-keys.) So if I had a problem like yours with my keyboard I’d think that the Mac/Win switch were in the wrong position. If I’m reading page 9 of the manual[1] right, on the K4 the switch in question is right next to the USB-C port.
> "the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows"
The physical slide switch on the Keychrons is a net negative for power users who use a KVM between Windows/Mac/Linux because it would wear out quickly and isn't replaceable. It's more sensible to have switching between layouts by keypress combination.
Have been using one of their keyboards for two years switching between windows and macos and that key was not the one that wore out first.
Plus on most keyboards you could configure the layout switch with qmk anyways.
At least on the keychrons i've got, you can absolutely configure layout changes via key combination, and that slide switch is just an input like every button is an input.
I've got 2 that both run QMK firmware, so maybe the non-QMK ones can't do that, but at least some can.
my issue with the one i have (k2, iirc) is that if i use it wirelessly and the battery dies, it becomes a brick until its been fully recharged. it won't even work as a wired keyboard until then. so ever since then i only use it wired.
My only complaint is that the backlight behavior has like a dozen different settings, none of which are "off". There's "on", "flicker", "blink when you hit the key", "ripple out when you hit the key", "move in waves regardless of input", etc., but there's no "don't be light" option.
I got a c3 pro a few weeks ago and you definitely can turn the lighting off. Don't remember whether it was through cycling or some other combo but you can. Did you look at the manual?
It’s interesting and slightly off-topic, but I’ve been a Keychron user for years (currently have their latest Q6 Ultra 8K), and I’m wondering whether I should be using QMK? I’ve never really dug into it before, but I’m afraid I’ll be losing functionality.
I think that Keychron is a meme brand surfing on the long tail of custom drops. I have a couple of them a Q1 Pro something, a K* whatever. They are just decent keyboards, a middle of the road. The constant accidental invocation of flashing lights is annoying and then you have to cycle through the presets. Not unique enough for geeks. Their marketing is good.
My Moonlander is gathering dust, can't find time to put it up on Ebay. Bought it 3 years ago, used for a week. QWERTY is hard to quit. I like the EPOMAKER Magicforce Smart2 68-Key layout [0] . No QMK, but I get by with Karabiner, etc.
Agree, not much special about them, and I truly hate their keycap profile which I find to be way too tall.
They’re not bad keyboards, and regularly on sales in the 40-60% range for many of their boards, it’s just that they’re not great either, middle of the road so to say.
> I like the EPOMAKER Magicforce Smart2 68-Key layout [0] . No QMK, but I get by with Karabiner, etc.
Many Epomaker boards are just licensed to be sold under their brand name, most of them fairly transparently. (Ie. Epomaker x Aula, Leobog etc.)
Quite a few of their configuration software packages end up looking quite horrible as a result, as I don't believe they have a unified software package for all the brands they sell. Many Windows Forms looking programs that look like a time machine back to the era of Windows XP.
Unfortunately they've also been caught up in quite a few scandals over the years:
QMK license violations
Customer support/Quality control issues
Attempts to dodge customs by deliberately under-declaring the value of their packages...
Got into a legal fight when another company also licensed an identical board design and beat them to market (The other company aren't angels either)
Platform banned from Reddit for astroturfing
Which kind of just results in Epomaker in being a hard discourage.
Their low profile keyboards are some of the best available. "Standard" full size mechanical keyboards is a a pretty crowded market with literally thousands of products that aren't that differentiated.
Keychron, I own two of your keyboards, actually three. If you want to send me an evaluation version of this mouse or even a sample reach out to me at m@bana.io.
Keep up the good work.
Biggest change I would request is a password before macros are allowed to be used. I store some sensitive information in macros because I hate typing them out so a feature to unlock macros when the device is first powered up would be great. Example:
1. Device powers off.
2. Lock macros keys.
3. Device powers on.
4. Show led indicating that macros are locked.
5. Enter password to unlock macros.
6. Led indicator turns green or some other colour to indicate that lock was successful upon entering password.
Keychron is a real company with a good history so it isn't unreasonable to expect it and thus you shouldn't be too cynical. However don't confuse that with don't be cynical at all - many companies with a good history have canceled projects, and this is still vaporware.
Or it's (again) a brilliant idea from those marketing people, something along the lines of "let's announce something we don't have and see how it is received, so that we will see if there is interest or not".
It's not even made up, I have seen marketing people actually do that.
I recently bought a Keychron TKL keyboard that uses Hall effect switches. It is, in my opinion, a lovely board to type on and so far I like it quite a lot. (Hopefully, this board with its socketed HE switches will serve longer than the previous board that had soldered Cherry MX Blues.)
It was advertised as being open-source and supporting QMK. Not at some time in the mysterious future, but right then. (And that's still true right now -- the web page is unchanged.)
But it does not have source available. The link for source code on the website lands at a Github page for a completely-unrelated keyboard, and I can't do anything at all with it using QMK. Extensive digging to find the source has resulted in zero positive results.
In the case of this Keychron keyboard, the promise of source code consists of resolute lies more than it does vaporware: The source is stated to openly exist, but it does not exist.
A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.
Well technically they sold you product that does not satisfy description, so you can claim money back even after warranty period ends (same as factory bugs/mistakes, they cannot be put under warranty period).
> A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.
It's annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
I don't even really know what I'd do with QMK if I could use it. This is the first keyboard I've owned that was advertised to support QMK and I was kind of hoping to learn more about the kinds of clever things that can (and cannot) be done with it; I'm not sure what I'm missing out on here.
> > A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.
Oh, my apologies, I missed that line.
> I don't even really know what I'd do with QMK if I could use it. This is the first keyboard I've owned that was advertised to support QMK and I was kind of hoping to learn more about the kinds of clever things that can (and cannot) be done with it; I'm not sure what I'm missing out on here.
I felt the same way before I started using it. Once you start though, you'll start thinking of ways to tweak it for your own workflow and pretty soon you won't be able to go without it.
One of these days, maybe I'll get an opportunity to explore it. :) I seem to be running across more people saying interesting things about QMK than I used to, but maybe some of that is just observational bias bringing it to the forefront.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Keychron has legitimately published the source for their QMK branches.
The real issue is that people buying a keyboard that advertises QMK support reasonably expect that they can install the upstream generic QMK, but Keychron actually maintains a bunch of "playground" branches on their fork of the QMK repository that each function as their own version of QMK.
I've been using a Q6 Pro as my primary keyboard for a while and I like it overall, but I was very disappointed when I decided to roll up my sleeves and compile QMK myself. My board launched with a build from the "bluetooth_playground" branch, which hasn't been updated for 2 years now and is now 6000 commits behind the main QMK project. There's now a separate "wireless_playground" branch which has been updated more recently and has an entry for my keyboard, but the link on the product page still goes to "bluetooth_playground" and even "wireless_playground" is 3000 commits behind the main QMK project.
Keychron boards without special functionality seem to get added to upstream QMK just fine, but a lot of us owners of bluetooth-enabled Keychron boards would really appreciate it if they provided an official way to flash normal QMK and just forgo the wireless features.
I wonder if it would be possible to get ZMK working on it instead, since that's built primarily for wireless support, and also supports wired configurations too as of recently. Seems like the STM32 that the Q6 pro uses is supported, so you might have some luck: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware
Hmm, I have a mouse and trackballs from ploopy, they run QMK, so why was a new project needed? What is the added value?
To me, the missing feature in the QMK ecosystem is a devices too device communication channel. For now there is only caps lock & others: it would be nice to activate a mouse layer (for instance: increase DPI) to a keyboard key.
It is probably solvable if a heavyweight was to push for new HID descriptors or something similar.
This would be more exciting if Keychron had mice of more interesting / experimental form factors and functionality. Just like their keyboards, their mice are mostly differentiated by obscure technical features (polling rates!).
I'm a bit worried that a decent, modern replacement for the extremely obsolete multi-button mouse I have now (Logitech G602) will never be available.
I miss my G602 so much. Replaced it with a G604 and then replaced that one with another G604 and then a third G604 before realizing that Logi's build quality has seemingly dived off a cliff for the premium they charge for their product and swapped to the 50% as expensive Keychron mice and keyboards and have been satisfactorily living with the decrease in available buttons (though quite an adjustment was needed). Onset of carpal tunnel has seen me switch to a vertical mouse anyways, so a change was inevitable.
I made the G602 to G604 to ?? transition. I ended up on the Razer Naga v2 Hyperspeed because I couldn't give up the dual mode scrolling. It functions very well but I'm waiting for it to break and find it discontinued like all the rest.
I got it a few years ago now so I'm not sure what mice I considered. But I'm always curious to hear if people have found better mmo mice. The 12 buttons + 2 index buttons, the high dpi, the 2.4ghz, the two scroll modes. I really enjoy it.
My G602 died due to Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :(
I've been fine with the G502 X Lightspeed (which should avoid said double-click issue due to optical switches) and some more efficient button use to compensate for the fewer side buttons.
Its very easy to source switches, soldering kit and skill curve for this particular repair is short. Plus you can even end up with better performing mouse switches
I looked it up (because I had already replaced switches on previous mice) and the fix required carefully removing a rubber cover that is glued in place and tears if you look at it wrong. It also requires removing the skates at the base, which means buying new ones. Even if you do that, the switch is very hard to access. Easily a 60+ minutes job.
I bought the switch thinking it was a 2 minute job and it’s still sitting on a closet for when I have the patience to do it.
What's wrong with the G502? I like the wired G502 pretty well. Ideally I'd tweak the shape to be a little more like the M500s shape, but I'm happy enough with it overall.
I had a G502 that lasted years, but the last two I bought lasted me 6 months each (the wheel got completely gummed up somehow). I acknowledge that cat hair and sweaty hands are a bad combination for a mouse wheel, but that's insanely poor durability, and they're annoying enough to disassemble that they're effectively not cleanable.
it uses this board: https://github.com/jfedor2/rp2040-pmw3360 and i can dig into my .stl files for the mouse if you want... made it on Blender and https://ryanis.cool/cosmos/beta - it's not the most lightweight thing in the world (would say around 100 grams) but it slides nicely and maybe by cycling/exercising often i don't think this one would give me RSI at any point in time... it's angle based on the most muscle neutral position the human arm anatomy has, between 20° - 30° [0] https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2004.34.10.638
> This repository is currently in its early setup phase.
> At the moment, the repository mainly contains project scaffolding, policy files, and the initial project direction. Firmware sources, board support, build instructions, and flashing guidance are still being prepared.
> That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. The goal is not to wait until everything is finished before opening the door. The goal is to make the long-term direction visible and let the project grow into a useful open firmware platform in the open.
> That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public.
"Intentionally early" is one of those phrases that means they vibed this README out in an hour with AI, and now hope that they can create firmware for it in the next 6 months.
I bought two (identical) of these keyboards and they're by far the worst keyboard I've ever purchased. OOB, both had Bluetooth stability issues, dropping out at least 1-2 times a day, resulting in a sustained keypress being interpreted by the OS while they reconnectedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd.
Vendor support suggested upgrading the firmware (I was on the latest firmware) so I followed their instruction - which nuked the keyboard's ability to use Bluetooth at all. No refund or replacement offered by vendor after reporting this.
I still use the non-broken one, exclusively in wired mode, and EVERY single time I use it, I have to perform the factory reset (Fn + z + j) in order to get the lights to work. Otherwise, cycling through the presets simply dims them until they're not visible.
I'm yet to find anybody with the same problems as me.
Hopefully better than their QMK fork. They force push over their branch in their fork each new release effectively erasing history of the last version...
Of course there's no change log anywhere either...
It took me three hours to figure out how to blacklist my Keychron keyboard from showing up as a joystick - and screwing up several games that thought they were receiving constant joystick input - in Linux, so I'm not sure how keen I am on using their stuff in the future. Is that a common issue in Linux?
I’ve had positive experiences with Keychron products in the past, but I’ve moved past them as I now prefer orthogonal layouts. That said, I loved their support of QMK on my Q1 Pro and I really hope this ends up on that same level.
I have an Inland MK-47 I bought on a whim from Microcenter, but it's been absolutely transformational. It did require a fair amount of setup though:
- I swapped out the switched from crummy reds to some lubed Keychron Browns I had.
- I had some custom keycaps made via https://yuzukeycaps.com/ since the ones it came with were abysmal.
- I had to enlarge the cutout for the USB-C port in the case so it could fit cables other than the one it came with.
- The default shortcuts/functions were bad so I had to customize it in QMK.
I bought a Q6 wired keyboard. Most solid keyboard I've ever owned.
Only problem is the backlight didn't actually light up the keys.
It wasn't fixable. first, the keys that came with the keyboard were opaque. And after the arduous task of replacing the keys with shine-through keycaps -- all the LEDs were positioned below the keystem instead of above, so the lettering wasn't illuminated.
I would have loved to use that keyboard. Switched to steelseries apex pro.
Hmm that opens up a way for cheating in games - have a Screengraber and image processing running directly communicate with mouse and let it calculate the distance to region of interest internally and then give out delta position. For the system, it looks like the mouse has been moved very fast and far
There's a ton of low-latency proxy hardware meant for cheating that does exactly that, out of the box, for those too lazy to do it themselves on any devboard. It's not an excuse for closed source mouse firmware
It's already being done. The fanciest game hacks use a custom PCI card to DMA game memory, read it on another computer, where it can do wallhacks and such.
But also, the second computer can drive a virtual mouse and keyboard which is connected to the 'legit' PC to even aim/move/shoot for you.
I really wanted to like Keychron, but after spending 200$ on one of their high end keyboards, certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later. I couldn't end up fixing it so I tossed it out. Felt like a waste
And all of us have owned multiple keyboards that have lasted for years of daily heavy use without a single key failing. Even the $30 membranes you could buy at $local_retailer didn't fail in a month.
As the poster is saying "certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later" it's almost certainly a manufacturing defect, rather than a wear-out issue.
Keychron say their mechanical switches last '50 million clicks' so to wear out after a month you'd have to be pressing the key 19 times a second, 24 hours a day.
Same. I ended up resoldering nearly all of the contact points (i.e. not the hot swap contact points but where those connect to the main board) because I liked the keyboard and firmware so much but it was such a stupid problem (way too little solder from the factory) for such an otherwise good and high end keyboard.
I like building my own keyboards. I get to choose the keycaps, switches, PCB, foams, cases. If some component fails or does not feel right, and can replace it. Building won't be cheaper, but there is an enormous quality gap between mass produced stuff and custom keyboards. My switches (Gateron) cost more than than a mid-range keyboard. If you don't want to go full DIY but want custom quality, check out Mode Designs for example.
Very interesting. I've been eyeballing a mouse/trackball project for a while based on some of the open source designs like Ploopy and the like. Slap a Nordic chip on it and a joycon battery. Even better if you can cook up a wireless charging mousepad like Logitech offers!
I stumbled upon this brand when I was looking for a hall effect QMK keyboard.
Glad to see them introducing this - I might make a purchase as while my current mouse is great, I can't customise it because the associated bloatware runs only on Windows.
I suspect that a lot of hardware will start shipping open source firmware soon. Routers, IP cameras, etc.
It'll be a selling point for everyone tinkering with vibe coding, and it's no longer a moat.
Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools. Companies that do this will have community goodwill and extra distribution that comes from having people talking about your product.
thats not the blocker you think it is. they can "leak" the info, wait until broadcom lawyers notice, agree to investigate themselves and fire a random contractor (who gets paid on the side). they just need to do it outside of america to avoid discovery if anyone decides to sue them.
Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend?
I need surveillance cameras (outdoor mostly) but the cheap ones I found are a horrid proprietary mess. I even bought and returned one after the setup was complex and invasive.
Basically all I need is access to the live stream from a raspberry pi where I can store and process the video.
> Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend?
I don't, unfortunately. My suggestion would be to use cameras that stream over RTSP, an open protocol, so you don't need to use any proprietary tools/apps. Make sure the cameras are air-gapped.
That might happen in niche enthusiast verticals like PC gaming. It's not going to happen in the broader market because there is no broader interest in it.
Most people want open source firmware for their router like they want open source sewing patterns for their pants. Primarily these are consumer products where people buy the product as a way to intentionally avoid spending time dealing with the problem they solve.
Open source pants might sell well in a Hobby Lobby and an open source IP camera might sell well in a Micro Center, but neither would sell well enough to get shelf space in a Walmart... and the best selling one in Walmart sells a tiny fraction compared to whoever can land an Xfinity contract.
Of course they are, as are open-source IP cameras and routers. My point is not that they don't exist, my point is that these things have interest only within relatively tiny bubbles.
Never have I thought "I want a mouse with modifiable firmware", IMHO this is only going to lead to more bugs arising from the associated increase in complexity and the "we can always fix it later" mentality. All the mouses and keyboards I've used have a mask-programmed MCU, and essentially no bugs to speak of.
I think the point is less to add features and more to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice, since, as you said, in large part keyboards and mice are appliances to the degree that it should rapidly converge to a stable set of features.
Plus, on a human level, I wouldn't be surprised if the teams working on mouse development were annoyed they couldn't show their past work in the same way...
to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice
The barrier is absolutely not firmware; you can get a single-chip sensor with a USB + PS/2 interface for cheap, no firmware required, and it's just plug-and-play on any PC. The mechanical design is the biggest hurdle.
I would imagine that it's plug and play until you start adding nonsense like customizable scripting on buttons or more than a certain button count as is standard on specialized gamer mice, but sure, fair enough.
"This is a platform you can build on", software and hardware specs included, is still a much nicer thing to iterate on than "it's commodity parts to slap together" for someone without familiarity with the processes involved at scale, and going from "this is an opaque piece of hardware that responds on guaranteed timing" to "this responds on guaranteed timing but also has more complex features" is still a substantial jump, since "building software that meets realtime timing requirements" is not a thing in a lot of people's wheelhouse.
A bit ago I accidentally bought a Keychron keyboard that didn't have QMK support, but then found that someone had ported it anyway, and I was able to flash it and fix some problems I had (the main one being that it seems like the default firmware only scans a single row of keys while asleep, possibly to save energy, but I want any keypress to wake the computer.) Maybe it's not perfect, but the community around open source keyboard firmware is great, it's a good example of how open source is beneficial for end users, especially power users.
And, in an era where vendor software and firmware for all kinds of devices is constantly having vulnerabilities, it is possible the liability of doing custom shit will eventually outweigh whatever benefits hardware companies seem to think it has, versus just having industry standards and free software instead. But, maybe that is wishful thinking.
My only complaint with Keychron is that of 5 or so keyboards I've owned from them I wound up having to resolder 3 different hotswap sockets on 2 different keyboards right out of the box. That is... Not a fantastic failure rate. OTOH, they are otherwise an unambiguously great value, with materials and build quality that feels pretty impressive for the cost, QC issues notwithstanding.
I bought a K4 Nordic version, only to learn none of their software supports it. So i can't reconfigure the firmware.
The keyboard has swapped Super/Alt (Windows/Alt) on the windows layout which is so annoying. I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it, but i curse the engineer that burned the prom every day.
That sucks, the main reason I like KeyChron is the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows! I wouldn't buy another keyboard without this feature TBH.
Yeah on the mac it works fine. The keyboard just shipped with the Left Alt and Left Windows key in the correct positions, but they are mapped opposite in the firmware. Imagine how maddening it was in the beginning.
Are you sure you don't have a tiny switch on the side? The manual indicates it should have one -
https://www.keychron.com/pages/k4-user-manual
I do, but when on the windows mode the keys mentioned are in the wrong positions.
--
Edit and if i switch to the macOS mode. The right alt-gr key is not mapped correctly.
On macOS:
I use my Keychron C3 in Windows mode because the macOS mode ain't right with the bottom left corner keys.
Maybe placement of Control/Option/Command aren't similar enough to the MacBook Pro keyboard for me.
Been meaning to figure this out and fix it... swapping physical keycaps or remapping in software or replacing the keyboard...
Waiting for it to die and will not buy another of theirs. Piece of shit.
Aw I like mine! Besides those few keys of layout.
Hope your next buy's perfect.
If you're not aware, you can remap modifier keys in System Settings on macOS. It doesn't have individual settings for left/right versions of a modifier key, so keep it in whichever mode has the modifiers on left/right paired with each other correctly, and then swap their functions to the right ones.
https://i.imgur.com/FXkmZRV.png
Settings are per keyboard so fixing your external keyboard won't mix up any other keyboards you use (particularly for laptops).
GP’s point is that many keyboards these days come with a Mac/Windows switch, and one of the things that switch does is swap the keycodes sent by the Alt and Win keys—the “Mac” behaviour is exactly what you’re describing. (The other thing it does is toggle FnLock for the F-keys.) So if I had a problem like yours with my keyboard I’d think that the Mac/Win switch were in the wrong position. If I’m reading page 9 of the manual[1] right, on the K4 the switch in question is right next to the USB-C port.
[1] https://www.keychron.com/pages/k4-keyboard-user-manual
Just remap it! If you're on Windows, SharpKeys will do that for you. https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys
I have autohotkey for remapping. The issue is when i boot into a rpi with a new build, i don't want to pollute it with custom xbind mappings.
> "the little switch on the side of mine that toggles between Mac and Windows"
The physical slide switch on the Keychrons is a net negative for power users who use a KVM between Windows/Mac/Linux because it would wear out quickly and isn't replaceable. It's more sensible to have switching between layouts by keypress combination.
Have been using one of their keyboards for two years switching between windows and macos and that key was not the one that wore out first. Plus on most keyboards you could configure the layout switch with qmk anyways.
At least on the keychrons i've got, you can absolutely configure layout changes via key combination, and that slide switch is just an input like every button is an input.
I've got 2 that both run QMK firmware, so maybe the non-QMK ones can't do that, but at least some can.
I had a similar issue with mine. But was able to reset it with Fn + z + j for a couple of seconds.
Why not reconfiguring it with something like AutoHotkey at the OS level ?
> I hate spending money on hardware so i'm living with it
This is an odd take to me, as personally I'd be more willing to spend money on well designed and made hardware, than most software.
my issue with the one i have (k2, iirc) is that if i use it wirelessly and the battery dies, it becomes a brick until its been fully recharged. it won't even work as a wired keyboard until then. so ever since then i only use it wired.
Weird, my K1SE or K8Pros aren't like that.
Here's one reddit thread about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Keychron/comments/j28yzg/k2_v2_does...
seems like there's a workaround but obviously far from ideal.
edit:
actually this may be the one I remember seeing at the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/Keychron/s/Dewr2dbVNX
This workaround?
"For anyone finding this thread like I just did, all it took for me was plugging the keyboard into a usb 3.0 slot"
My only complaint is that the backlight behavior has like a dozen different settings, none of which are "off". There's "on", "flicker", "blink when you hit the key", "ripple out when you hit the key", "move in waves regardless of input", etc., but there's no "don't be light" option.
It's fn+light-key on my keychron. Might work on yours.
On mine, it's both!
Fn+Tab is the backlight toggle on my V5 Max (and it's specifically called out in the user manual https://www.keychron.com/pages/keychron-v5-max-user-manual)
I got a c3 pro a few weeks ago and you definitely can turn the lighting off. Don't remember whether it was through cycling or some other combo but you can. Did you look at the manual?
It’s interesting and slightly off-topic, but I’ve been a Keychron user for years (currently have their latest Q6 Ultra 8K), and I’m wondering whether I should be using QMK? I’ve never really dug into it before, but I’m afraid I’ll be losing functionality.
I think that Keychron is a meme brand surfing on the long tail of custom drops. I have a couple of them a Q1 Pro something, a K* whatever. They are just decent keyboards, a middle of the road. The constant accidental invocation of flashing lights is annoying and then you have to cycle through the presets. Not unique enough for geeks. Their marketing is good.
My Moonlander is gathering dust, can't find time to put it up on Ebay. Bought it 3 years ago, used for a week. QWERTY is hard to quit. I like the EPOMAKER Magicforce Smart2 68-Key layout [0] . No QMK, but I get by with Karabiner, etc.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0836T2Y17
You sound like me. Same gripe about my Keychron, same Moonlander gathering dust that I keep meaning to do something with...
Agree, not much special about them, and I truly hate their keycap profile which I find to be way too tall. They’re not bad keyboards, and regularly on sales in the 40-60% range for many of their boards, it’s just that they’re not great either, middle of the road so to say.
> I like the EPOMAKER Magicforce Smart2 68-Key layout [0] . No QMK, but I get by with Karabiner, etc.
Many Epomaker boards are just licensed to be sold under their brand name, most of them fairly transparently. (Ie. Epomaker x Aula, Leobog etc.)
Quite a few of their configuration software packages end up looking quite horrible as a result, as I don't believe they have a unified software package for all the brands they sell. Many Windows Forms looking programs that look like a time machine back to the era of Windows XP.
Unfortunately they've also been caught up in quite a few scandals over the years: QMK license violations Customer support/Quality control issues Attempts to dodge customs by deliberately under-declaring the value of their packages... Got into a legal fight when another company also licensed an identical board design and beat them to market (The other company aren't angels either) Platform banned from Reddit for astroturfing
Which kind of just results in Epomaker in being a hard discourage.
Their low profile keyboards are some of the best available. "Standard" full size mechanical keyboards is a a pretty crowded market with literally thousands of products that aren't that differentiated.
You can disable the invocation of the lights.
Fn + L + Light button for 6 seconds for the K series.
YMMV depending on the exact model.
https://keychronsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360052...
Their low profile keyboards are unmatched IMHO. Nothing has hit the balance that they have.
approaches manaskarekar with slow deliberate steps
stands before manaskarekar
clasps manaskarekar upon both shoulders
gazes into manaskarekar
softly smiles and subtly nods at manaskarekar
releases clasp and worm-dances back into the desert
> QWERTY is hard to quit
Is your moonlander not QWERTY? Can’t you just change the layout, if not? Or do you mean the Ortholinear layout is hard to get used to?
I’ve been wanting to buy a moonlander…
Keychron, I own two of your keyboards, actually three. If you want to send me an evaluation version of this mouse or even a sample reach out to me at m@bana.io.
Keep up the good work.
Biggest change I would request is a password before macros are allowed to be used. I store some sensitive information in macros because I hate typing them out so a feature to unlock macros when the device is first powered up would be great. Example:
1. Device powers off.
2. Lock macros keys.
3. Device powers on.
4. Show led indicating that macros are locked.
5. Enter password to unlock macros.
6. Led indicator turns green or some other colour to indicate that lock was successful upon entering password.
7. Macros can then be used.
Any other ideas would be great.
Announces != releases.
They claim 2027 Q1 will be the release date.
Links below purporting to be “the repository” lead to a repo with no source code.
Sorry, I’m cynical. An announcement 6-9 months ahead of release? Why? Right now it’s vaporware.
Keychron is a real company with a good history so it isn't unreasonable to expect it and thus you shouldn't be too cynical. However don't confuse that with don't be cynical at all - many companies with a good history have canceled projects, and this is still vaporware.
If they plan on developing it in the open and taking early contribution / feedback could be a valid (and good) reason.
Or it's (again) a brilliant idea from those marketing people, something along the lines of "let's announce something we don't have and see how it is received, so that we will see if there is interest or not".
It's not even made up, I have seen marketing people actually do that.
I'm cynical, too, and I have good reason to be.
I recently bought a Keychron TKL keyboard that uses Hall effect switches. It is, in my opinion, a lovely board to type on and so far I like it quite a lot. (Hopefully, this board with its socketed HE switches will serve longer than the previous board that had soldered Cherry MX Blues.)
It was advertised as being open-source and supporting QMK. Not at some time in the mysterious future, but right then. (And that's still true right now -- the web page is unchanged.)
But it does not have source available. The link for source code on the website lands at a Github page for a completely-unrelated keyboard, and I can't do anything at all with it using QMK. Extensive digging to find the source has resulted in zero positive results.
In the case of this Keychron keyboard, the promise of source code consists of resolute lies more than it does vaporware: The source is stated to openly exist, but it does not exist.
A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.
So yeah, anyway: The cynicism is valid.
Well technically they sold you product that does not satisfy description, so you can claim money back even after warranty period ends (same as factory bugs/mistakes, they cannot be put under warranty period).
I've got better things to do than to die on a hill made of a corporate lie that is worth less than $100.
Did you try contacting them and asking them about it?
Yes.
> A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.
It's annoying, but it's not the end of the world.
I don't even really know what I'd do with QMK if I could use it. This is the first keyboard I've owned that was advertised to support QMK and I was kind of hoping to learn more about the kinds of clever things that can (and cannot) be done with it; I'm not sure what I'm missing out on here.
> > A question about this situation to their support email resulted in assignment of a ticket number, followed by silence.
Oh, my apologies, I missed that line.
> I don't even really know what I'd do with QMK if I could use it. This is the first keyboard I've owned that was advertised to support QMK and I was kind of hoping to learn more about the kinds of clever things that can (and cannot) be done with it; I'm not sure what I'm missing out on here.
I felt the same way before I started using it. Once you start though, you'll start thinking of ways to tweak it for your own workflow and pretty soon you won't be able to go without it.
One of these days, maybe I'll get an opportunity to explore it. :) I seem to be running across more people saying interesting things about QMK than I used to, but maybe some of that is just observational bias bringing it to the forefront.
If I may ask: What's good about it for your use?
Don't they already have open source firmware, at least for their keyboards. I have a K4 HE and this is on their Github [1].
[1] - https://github.com/Keychron/qmk_firmware/tree/hall_effect_pl...
They publish the .stp, .dxf, .dwg, .pdf files for a lot of their products already too.
I would be fairly optimistic that they will hold their promise.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Keychron has legitimately published the source for their QMK branches.
The real issue is that people buying a keyboard that advertises QMK support reasonably expect that they can install the upstream generic QMK, but Keychron actually maintains a bunch of "playground" branches on their fork of the QMK repository that each function as their own version of QMK.
I've been using a Q6 Pro as my primary keyboard for a while and I like it overall, but I was very disappointed when I decided to roll up my sleeves and compile QMK myself. My board launched with a build from the "bluetooth_playground" branch, which hasn't been updated for 2 years now and is now 6000 commits behind the main QMK project. There's now a separate "wireless_playground" branch which has been updated more recently and has an entry for my keyboard, but the link on the product page still goes to "bluetooth_playground" and even "wireless_playground" is 3000 commits behind the main QMK project.
Keychron boards without special functionality seem to get added to upstream QMK just fine, but a lot of us owners of bluetooth-enabled Keychron boards would really appreciate it if they provided an official way to flash normal QMK and just forgo the wireless features.
I wonder if it would be possible to get ZMK working on it instead, since that's built primarily for wireless support, and also supports wired configurations too as of recently. Seems like the STM32 that the Q6 pro uses is supported, so you might have some luck: https://zmk.dev/docs/hardware
Hmm, I have a mouse and trackballs from ploopy, they run QMK, so why was a new project needed? What is the added value?
To me, the missing feature in the QMK ecosystem is a devices too device communication channel. For now there is only caps lock & others: it would be nice to activate a mouse layer (for instance: increase DPI) to a keyboard key.
It is probably solvable if a heavyweight was to push for new HID descriptors or something similar.
This would be more exciting if Keychron had mice of more interesting / experimental form factors and functionality. Just like their keyboards, their mice are mostly differentiated by obscure technical features (polling rates!).
I'm a bit worried that a decent, modern replacement for the extremely obsolete multi-button mouse I have now (Logitech G602) will never be available.
I miss my G602 so much. Replaced it with a G604 and then replaced that one with another G604 and then a third G604 before realizing that Logi's build quality has seemingly dived off a cliff for the premium they charge for their product and swapped to the 50% as expensive Keychron mice and keyboards and have been satisfactorily living with the decrease in available buttons (though quite an adjustment was needed). Onset of carpal tunnel has seen me switch to a vertical mouse anyways, so a change was inevitable.
I made the G602 to G604 to ?? transition. I ended up on the Razer Naga v2 Hyperspeed because I couldn't give up the dual mode scrolling. It functions very well but I'm waiting for it to break and find it discontinued like all the rest.
I got it a few years ago now so I'm not sure what mice I considered. But I'm always curious to hear if people have found better mmo mice. The 12 buttons + 2 index buttons, the high dpi, the 2.4ghz, the two scroll modes. I really enjoy it.
My G602 died due to Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :(
I've been fine with the G502 X Lightspeed (which should avoid said double-click issue due to optical switches) and some more efficient button use to compensate for the fewer side buttons.
> Logitech's infamous double-click issue. :(
Isn't that just the tact switch failing? Two minute job to replace...
I do not casually have spare tactile switches, nor the hardware skills to replace.
Its very easy to source switches, soldering kit and skill curve for this particular repair is short. Plus you can even end up with better performing mouse switches
Not on this mouse.
I looked it up (because I had already replaced switches on previous mice) and the fix required carefully removing a rubber cover that is glued in place and tears if you look at it wrong. It also requires removing the skates at the base, which means buying new ones. Even if you do that, the switch is very hard to access. Easily a 60+ minutes job.
I bought the switch thinking it was a 2 minute job and it’s still sitting on a closet for when I have the patience to do it.
I moved from Logitech to Keychron because of double-click.
Unfortunately my Keychron M7 got double-click too. Getting very jaded with the mouse industry at this point.
You can replace the switch, it's a pretty simple solder replacement, just a couple of pins. I did that for my G300s.
> a decent, modern replacement for...G602
What's wrong with the G502? I like the wired G502 pretty well. Ideally I'd tweak the shape to be a little more like the M500s shape, but I'm happy enough with it overall.
I had a G502 that lasted years, but the last two I bought lasted me 6 months each (the wheel got completely gummed up somehow). I acknowledge that cat hair and sweaty hands are a bad combination for a mouse wheel, but that's insanely poor durability, and they're annoying enough to disassemble that they're effectively not cleanable.
i'm using this mouse for over 2 years now: https://happort.org/mouse
it uses this board: https://github.com/jfedor2/rp2040-pmw3360 and i can dig into my .stl files for the mouse if you want... made it on Blender and https://ryanis.cool/cosmos/beta - it's not the most lightweight thing in the world (would say around 100 grams) but it slides nicely and maybe by cycling/exercising often i don't think this one would give me RSI at any point in time... it's angle based on the most muscle neutral position the human arm anatomy has, between 20° - 30° [0] https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.2004.34.10.638
While its not on the same level, check out the M6. You can remap the side scroll buttons, as well as the two other ones, which gives you four actions.
For those that are interested: - https://github.com/Keychron/zgm - https://zgm.gg/
Um, did they announce opensource firmware without providing the source?
Yep!
> This repository is currently in its early setup phase.
> At the moment, the repository mainly contains project scaffolding, policy files, and the initial project direction. Firmware sources, board support, build instructions, and flashing guidance are still being prepared.
> That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public. The goal is not to wait until everything is finished before opening the door. The goal is to make the long-term direction visible and let the project grow into a useful open firmware platform in the open.
> That means zgm is early, but it is intentionally early in public.
"Intentionally early" is one of those phrases that means they vibed this README out in an hour with AI, and now hope that they can create firmware for it in the next 6 months.
Based on what I understand, pull requests are coming. In the meantime they provide directions for people that want to contribute here -> https://github.com/Keychron/zgm/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md
Where are the PRs coming in? I see a repo without source code.
That file appears to be either copied from a completely unrelated repo or vibe-coded.
> This repository is a lightweight analysis and report-generation workspace.
And "please contribute to our blank open-source project" can be taken with a grain of salt.
I bought two (identical) of these keyboards and they're by far the worst keyboard I've ever purchased. OOB, both had Bluetooth stability issues, dropping out at least 1-2 times a day, resulting in a sustained keypress being interpreted by the OS while they reconnectedddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd.
Vendor support suggested upgrading the firmware (I was on the latest firmware) so I followed their instruction - which nuked the keyboard's ability to use Bluetooth at all. No refund or replacement offered by vendor after reporting this.
I still use the non-broken one, exclusively in wired mode, and EVERY single time I use it, I have to perform the factory reset (Fn + z + j) in order to get the lights to work. Otherwise, cycling through the presets simply dims them until they're not visible.
I'm yet to find anybody with the same problems as me.
Hopefully better than their QMK fork. They force push over their branch in their fork each new release effectively erasing history of the last version...
Of course there's no change log anywhere either...
I don't blame them though. QMK is a mess of a monolithic repository.
QMK should be thrown away. ZMK is much, much cleaner.
Yep. I am waiting for half-duplex UART splitkb support to come so that I can move everything over.
> effectively erasing history of the last version
Does that mean they remove any release tags as well?
It took me three hours to figure out how to blacklist my Keychron keyboard from showing up as a joystick - and screwing up several games that thought they were receiving constant joystick input - in Linux, so I'm not sure how keen I am on using their stuff in the future. Is that a common issue in Linux?
I can at least say that it's not endemic.
I have two different Keychron keyboards, used in different Linux distros. I have never experienced, and wouldn't even had imagined, such a scenario.
Probably depends on the specific device and specific game. I ended up using some info from here.
https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
No? I run Fedora and have a few keyboards from them and have not seen that. 1x K1SE and 2x K8 Pros for reference.
Cool, I like Keychron products, but can people really not even write a single tweet without using AI to speak for them now?
I’ve had positive experiences with Keychron products in the past, but I’ve moved past them as I now prefer orthogonal layouts. That said, I loved their support of QMK on my Q1 Pro and I really hope this ends up on that same level.
Ortholinear, surely?
Which one do you use/have now?
You're right, I do have an ortholinear keyboard!
I have an Inland MK-47 I bought on a whim from Microcenter, but it's been absolutely transformational. It did require a fair amount of setup though: - I swapped out the switched from crummy reds to some lubed Keychron Browns I had. - I had some custom keycaps made via https://yuzukeycaps.com/ since the ones it came with were abysmal. - I had to enlarge the cutout for the USB-C port in the case so it could fit cables other than the one it came with. - The default shortcuts/functions were bad so I had to customize it in QMK.
Do you mean really ortholinears like Planck or columnars like Corne, Sofle, Kinesis?
My bad, I did mean "ortholinear"!
I bought a Q6 wired keyboard. Most solid keyboard I've ever owned.
Only problem is the backlight didn't actually light up the keys.
It wasn't fixable. first, the keys that came with the keyboard were opaque. And after the arduous task of replacing the keys with shine-through keycaps -- all the LEDs were positioned below the keystem instead of above, so the lettering wasn't illuminated.
I would have loved to use that keyboard. Switched to steelseries apex pro.
I hope they make a wired one. Ideally with a detachable USB-C for when the cat eventually chews on it.
Hmm that opens up a way for cheating in games - have a Screengraber and image processing running directly communicate with mouse and let it calculate the distance to region of interest internally and then give out delta position. For the system, it looks like the mouse has been moved very fast and far
it's hardly difficult to do that already. Like a Raspberry Pi Pico can be turned into a HID mouse rather easily: https://www.instructables.com/Raspberry-Pi-Pico-As-HID-Mouse...
and yes, hdmi/displayport capture -> ML object detection -> fake HID mouse to cheat is absolutely already a thing.
There's a ton of low-latency proxy hardware meant for cheating that does exactly that, out of the box, for those too lazy to do it themselves on any devboard. It's not an excuse for closed source mouse firmware
It's already being done. The fanciest game hacks use a custom PCI card to DMA game memory, read it on another computer, where it can do wallhacks and such.
But also, the second computer can drive a virtual mouse and keyboard which is connected to the 'legit' PC to even aim/move/shoot for you.
I really wanted to like Keychron, but after spending 200$ on one of their high end keyboards, certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later. I couldn't end up fixing it so I tossed it out. Felt like a waste
I am deep into custom keyboards but I only buy ones with hot swappable switches. Some keys like AWSDEHJKL etc are bound to fail sooner than others.
The mechanical keyboard hobby takes patience; just look at firmware customization: testing litterally requires keystrokes.
I'm on a Mac keyboard bent for the very reason, actually,
Mouse firmware sounds very cool, though. If you could access a layer by holding down a central button, that could open up neat possibilities.
And all of us have owned multiple keyboards that have lasted for years of daily heavy use without a single key failing. Even the $30 membranes you could buy at $local_retailer didn't fail in a month.
As the poster is saying "certain keys weren't detecting presses less than a month later" it's almost certainly a manufacturing defect, rather than a wear-out issue.
Keychron say their mechanical switches last '50 million clicks' so to wear out after a month you'd have to be pressing the key 19 times a second, 24 hours a day.
Same. I ended up resoldering nearly all of the contact points (i.e. not the hot swap contact points but where those connect to the main board) because I liked the keyboard and firmware so much but it was such a stupid problem (way too little solder from the factory) for such an otherwise good and high end keyboard.
I like building my own keyboards. I get to choose the keycaps, switches, PCB, foams, cases. If some component fails or does not feel right, and can replace it. Building won't be cheaper, but there is an enormous quality gap between mass produced stuff and custom keyboards. My switches (Gateron) cost more than than a mid-range keyboard. If you don't want to go full DIY but want custom quality, check out Mode Designs for example.
Very interesting. I've been eyeballing a mouse/trackball project for a while based on some of the open source designs like Ploopy and the like. Slap a Nordic chip on it and a joycon battery. Even better if you can cook up a wireless charging mousepad like Logitech offers!
I stumbled upon this brand when I was looking for a hall effect QMK keyboard.
Glad to see them introducing this - I might make a purchase as while my current mouse is great, I can't customise it because the associated bloatware runs only on Windows.
I hope this leads to macro programmable mice, the only brand I know of that saves macros on board and supports while loops is A4tech
Keychron announces it has too much time on its hands while never being Datahand.
If you want a DataHand replacement, take a look at https://svalboard.com/. Costs an arm and a leg, though.
My brother. TY
I suspect that a lot of hardware will start shipping open source firmware soon. Routers, IP cameras, etc.
It'll be a selling point for everyone tinkering with vibe coding, and it's no longer a moat.
Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools. Companies that do this will have community goodwill and extra distribution that comes from having people talking about your product.
> Companies that don't do this will have their firmwares dumped with open source models and tools
This is not as "one and done" as you make it sound.
I suspect a lot of that firmware has NDAs with Broadcom attached.
thats not the blocker you think it is. they can "leak" the info, wait until broadcom lawyers notice, agree to investigate themselves and fire a random contractor (who gets paid on the side). they just need to do it outside of america to avoid discovery if anyone decides to sue them.
> Routers, IP cameras, etc.
Those already exist: OpenWRT, OpenIPC. I wish more hardware was available though, especially for cameras.
Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend?
I need surveillance cameras (outdoor mostly) but the cheap ones I found are a horrid proprietary mess. I even bought and returned one after the setup was complex and invasive.
Basically all I need is access to the live stream from a raspberry pi where I can store and process the video.
> Do you have any cameras that support openipc you’d recommend?
I don't, unfortunately. My suggestion would be to use cameras that stream over RTSP, an open protocol, so you don't need to use any proprietary tools/apps. Make sure the cameras are air-gapped.
That might happen in niche enthusiast verticals like PC gaming. It's not going to happen in the broader market because there is no broader interest in it.
Most people want open source firmware for their router like they want open source sewing patterns for their pants. Primarily these are consumer products where people buy the product as a way to intentionally avoid spending time dealing with the problem they solve.
Open source pants might sell well in a Hobby Lobby and an open source IP camera might sell well in a Micro Center, but neither would sell well enough to get shelf space in a Walmart... and the best selling one in Walmart sells a tiny fraction compared to whoever can land an Xfinity contract.
Tangential but open source pants are very much a thing https://freesewing.eu/
Of course they are, as are open-source IP cameras and routers. My point is not that they don't exist, my point is that these things have interest only within relatively tiny bubbles.
A seam ripper will "de-compile" any garment you like.
I still wait for someone to beat logitech m500 (released 2009) in ergonomics.
Keychrone mice are already pretty nice, this is a welcome improvement
Their mice are pretty nice, and they come at a good price. The M7 is a particularly good device, and their other offerings have enticed me twice.
Thanks for being so concise
This is going to be used for cheating / hacking in games.
Never have I thought "I want a mouse with modifiable firmware", IMHO this is only going to lead to more bugs arising from the associated increase in complexity and the "we can always fix it later" mentality. All the mouses and keyboards I've used have a mask-programmed MCU, and essentially no bugs to speak of.
I think the point is less to add features and more to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice, since, as you said, in large part keyboards and mice are appliances to the degree that it should rapidly converge to a stable set of features.
Plus, on a human level, I wouldn't be surprised if the teams working on mouse development were annoyed they couldn't show their past work in the same way...
to lower the barrier to entry for people making mice
The barrier is absolutely not firmware; you can get a single-chip sensor with a USB + PS/2 interface for cheap, no firmware required, and it's just plug-and-play on any PC. The mechanical design is the biggest hurdle.
https://github.com/RandomDelta6/USB-Mouse
I would imagine that it's plug and play until you start adding nonsense like customizable scripting on buttons or more than a certain button count as is standard on specialized gamer mice, but sure, fair enough.
"This is a platform you can build on", software and hardware specs included, is still a much nicer thing to iterate on than "it's commodity parts to slap together" for someone without familiarity with the processes involved at scale, and going from "this is an opaque piece of hardware that responds on guaranteed timing" to "this responds on guaranteed timing but also has more complex features" is still a substantial jump, since "building software that meets realtime timing requirements" is not a thing in a lot of people's wheelhouse.