It's sad that Tuta has fallen for Big Tech newspeak. Once upon a time, we installed stuff on our devices. Calling it side-something makes it seem frowned upon, which plays right into Google's hand.
That is untrue. It's called "installing" or just "running". Sideloading makes no sense if you describe normal installing that way. The side load is the app store.
Got any citations for that? The first time I personally ever encountered the term "sideload" was at a Microsoft developer demo for the upcoming Windows Phone around 2010, and another audience member raised his hand to ask what that term meant.
Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed. Google will still allow installing from the Play store. The distinction is valid.
You can acknowledge that different concepts exist and would be better served by having different words, rather than trying to force others (via downvoting) into not using a given word. Whether you support google's restrictions or not, they only apply to a subset of apps, so having a word to refer to the specific subset of apps is helpful.
I am not sure about that. Windows, Linux based devices were like that but for a lot of things like gaming consoles etc. you were locked into the ecosystem and 'side loading" was indeed something.
I do understand developer mindset but I would be pretty unhappy if my mother's phone could just install stuff. A lot of people get harmed and lose their life's saving over wrongly installed crap.
A good middle ground for the Big Tech is to let folks pay $$, a money that is high enough and has sufficient friction.
There is no such thing as an official store for anything. You can use any app store you want. But normal installing without an app store is called normal. The app store is the side show.
If an OS locks you to their brand's app store and blocks normal installation, that is not legal since its a monopoly action.
> There is no such thing as an official store for anything.
This goes beyond advocacy into straight up... well I won't yet call it lying but it's intentionally using words in a way that will mislead people using words the normal way.
That we should just call things installing, yeah I see where you're coming from. But in your other comment where you go so far as to conclude that "The side load is the app store"? That's just wrong.
Eh, but you can just install apks now you don't need to say where it's from when you talk about it, or if I did I might say "install SillyOpenSourceApp" from Fdroid.
Guess it's a good thing that Android can't install updates via Ethernet, but I only connect my phone via Ethernet. My next phone is going to be a Linux phone, though, I guess.
I still don't understand whether this affects me if I have Google Play Store disabled and Google Play Protect disabled, will still affect me if I have Google Play Services enabled or do I have to disable them, install what I want and then reenable them? Sounds like quite stupid workflow, though not too worrysome.
I am going to either buy a CommodoreOS phone (Jolla) or a Linux phone (TBD) at this point for any such purchases;
I currently have old phones who do not have this restriction, but if Google Play did this, I'd already be ready with Aptoid and ready to disable Play Store if I need to.
Except there were websites requiring you to install ActiveX and proprietary plugins to do anything meaningful as soon as 1995? Also banks requiring proprietary security modules to access your account, they were pretty ubiquitous in the early 2000s where I lived.
The difference now is that accessing services through the internet is a necessity rather than a luxury. I guess passing laws could fix this, but it's exceptionally hard to get anything done through the barrage of big tech lobbying.
(warning dumb question incoming): since android apps are java, is it possible for a third contender to create a jvm for their platform and some hooks for android api’s and run anything that was made for them?
Yes. The main issue is hardware attestation, e.g. the bank's backend refusing to allow you to log in unless you can prove cryptographically that you are running a Google-certified device and operating system.
I almost never use dedicated apps. I am able to access all my bank and other financial accounts through their websites on mobile, no problem. (Vanadium browser on GrapheneOS)
Note that this mechanism IS ALREADY IN android phones, with currently play store services accepting side loading, but once that app upgrades (independent of even android upgrades) and so this is not like "your next phone restricts side loading", side loading will suddenly fail on your current phone.
EU regulations do not require that, that's bullshit. Otherwise Microsoft and Apple would do the same and completely restrict what one can install on their laptop (Microsoft tried to force people to go through their store on Windows Family versions though, I'm glad they failed).
The only reason I chose Android was being able to install my own "native" apps without Google having a say. If that function is gone, I simply have no reason to use Android, I actually like IOS better in terms of UI, so I'll just move to Apple's ecosystem...
While using alternative OS on older Android devices.
You can still install your own apps and in my case your own operating system (graphene). The 24 hour wait to activate sideloads indefinitely seems like a non-issue to me.
How is this not mentioned in the article anywhere? I've seen similar articles and keep thinking: is this about the 24 delay or something else. It just leads to confusing messaging.
It's sad that Tuta has fallen for Big Tech newspeak. Once upon a time, we installed stuff on our devices. Calling it side-something makes it seem frowned upon, which plays right into Google's hand.
It's not newspeak, we've been calling it sideloading since the 90s
That is untrue. It's called "installing" or just "running". Sideloading makes no sense if you describe normal installing that way. The side load is the app store.
right but sideloading means installing outside the official channel. last i checked playstore was an option, not android official.
Got any citations for that? The first time I personally ever encountered the term "sideload" was at a Microsoft developer demo for the upcoming Windows Phone around 2010, and another audience member raised his hand to ask what that term meant.
Not for apps and games on most phones.
I made these and we installed them as JARs or Whatever Symbian used.
Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed. Google will still allow installing from the Play store. The distinction is valid.
> Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed
Installing is the action of the owner of the device, to add functionality to that device by adding compiled executable code, regardless of the source.
You can acknowledge that different concepts exist and would be better served by having different words, rather than trying to force others (via downvoting) into not using a given word. Whether you support google's restrictions or not, they only apply to a subset of apps, so having a word to refer to the specific subset of apps is helpful.
Helpful to whom? Google banning installing apps outside of play store is the correct story.
It's a blue-bubblification, something which tricks the mind.
> we installed stuff on our devices
I am not sure about that. Windows, Linux based devices were like that but for a lot of things like gaming consoles etc. you were locked into the ecosystem and 'side loading" was indeed something.
I do understand developer mindset but I would be pretty unhappy if my mother's phone could just install stuff. A lot of people get harmed and lose their life's saving over wrongly installed crap.
A good middle ground for the Big Tech is to let folks pay $$, a money that is high enough and has sufficient friction.
We should stop calling it "side-loading" and start calling it "front-loading." App store primacy in the users' minds is a cancer.
Why is it called side-loading here? Isn't that just downloading?
It's installing, not just downloading.
Downloading and installing an app from a source other than the official store included with the OS.
Because that is a mouthful people named it "sideloading".
There is no such thing as an official store for anything. You can use any app store you want. But normal installing without an app store is called normal. The app store is the side show. If an OS locks you to their brand's app store and blocks normal installation, that is not legal since its a monopoly action.
> There is no such thing as an official store for anything.
This goes beyond advocacy into straight up... well I won't yet call it lying but it's intentionally using words in a way that will mislead people using words the normal way.
That we should just call things installing, yeah I see where you're coming from. But in your other comment where you go so far as to conclude that "The side load is the app store"? That's just wrong.
"Direct app installation"
Eh, but you can just install apks now you don't need to say where it's from when you talk about it, or if I did I might say "install SillyOpenSourceApp" from Fdroid.
Just call it "installing".
I don't "sideload" spotify on my windows machine, i installed it.
Guess it's a good thing that Android can't install updates via Ethernet, but I only connect my phone via Ethernet. My next phone is going to be a Linux phone, though, I guess.
I still don't understand whether this affects me if I have Google Play Store disabled and Google Play Protect disabled, will still affect me if I have Google Play Services enabled or do I have to disable them, install what I want and then reenable them? Sounds like quite stupid workflow, though not too worrysome.
I am going to either buy a CommodoreOS phone (Jolla) or a Linux phone (TBD) at this point for any such purchases;
I currently have old phones who do not have this restriction, but if Google Play did this, I'd already be ready with Aptoid and ready to disable Play Store if I need to.
I am not a fan of Apple or Google, but there is no other option that works with my everyday essential apps (e.g banking)?
I miss when websites made it possible to do essential things in my daily life without requiring I install something on my device.
Except there were websites requiring you to install ActiveX and proprietary plugins to do anything meaningful as soon as 1995? Also banks requiring proprietary security modules to access your account, they were pretty ubiquitous in the early 2000s where I lived.
The difference now is that accessing services through the internet is a necessity rather than a luxury. I guess passing laws could fix this, but it's exceptionally hard to get anything done through the barrage of big tech lobbying.
Oh god I just had Microsoft Silverlight flashbacks
(warning dumb question incoming): since android apps are java, is it possible for a third contender to create a jvm for their platform and some hooks for android api’s and run anything that was made for them?
Anbox let's you run android apps on Linux. I'd assume it could also work on Mobian or something similar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anbox
Is Anbox still maintained? I remember using Anbox a long time ago, then I tried waydroid.
https://waydro.id/
Yes. The main issue is hardware attestation, e.g. the bank's backend refusing to allow you to log in unless you can prove cryptographically that you are running a Google-certified device and operating system.
I almost never use dedicated apps. I am able to access all my bank and other financial accounts through their websites on mobile, no problem. (Vanadium browser on GrapheneOS)
Note that this mechanism IS ALREADY IN android phones, with currently play store services accepting side loading, but once that app upgrades (independent of even android upgrades) and so this is not like "your next phone restricts side loading", side loading will suddenly fail on your current phone.
https://keepandroidopen.org/
Petitions never do anything. Reverse engineering does.
Walled garden models I guess
The war has already been declared. It's just another battle.
Best part is the justification that eu regulations require this
EU regulations do not require that, that's bullshit. Otherwise Microsoft and Apple would do the same and completely restrict what one can install on their laptop (Microsoft tried to force people to go through their store on Windows Family versions though, I'm glad they failed).
The only reason I chose Android was being able to install my own "native" apps without Google having a say. If that function is gone, I simply have no reason to use Android, I actually like IOS better in terms of UI, so I'll just move to Apple's ecosystem...
While using alternative OS on older Android devices.
You can still install your own apps and in my case your own operating system (graphene). The 24 hour wait to activate sideloads indefinitely seems like a non-issue to me.
https://support.google.com/android/answer/17588095
How is this not mentioned in the article anywhere? I've seen similar articles and keep thinking: is this about the 24 delay or something else. It just leads to confusing messaging.
There was no issue before.
So what the point of changing stuff and hope it does not create any issues ?