Huh, cool. If you want to save a few bucks you can go with a stainless steel French press or a mason jar if you're into cold brews. You're symbolizing a different kind of status though.
This summer was sunny and hot in Colorado, so every morning I'd make a jar of sun coffee. I'd leave it out through the day and overnight. The next morning I'd pull it in, filter it, refill it with grounds and water and take it outside again. It was cool enough to enjoy and really smooth.
I use a moka pot. I don't feel comfortable calling what it makes espresso but for it's still pretty decent. If I had more patience I would do pour over at home.
French press coffee isn't so healthy either because of stuff like cafestols in the fines (small diameter grounds) that slip through the french press screen. To get rid of those you want a brewing scheme with a paper filter. The simplest no-plastic approach is a Chemex. They have a history and they also look cool as heck. Unfortunately, since they are made of glass, they can break if you're not careful. https://chemexcoffeemaker.com/
The Chemex can also be a little annoying because of the tendency of the filter to block the 'spout', causing the brewer to stall, and requiring a chopstick or straw to avoid. That said, I use my Chemex twice a week.
When I broke my french press I got by fine with just throwing grounds in a pot of boiled water and decanting it off after a few minutes steep. Basically all the press does anyhow just less convenient.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even the $10k slayer espresso machine has a plastic water resevoir. Granted the brewing assembly is mostly plastic free.
While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible, it's practically impossible in the modern world.
Simple is usually best; glass or ceramic pour over, stainless press, or even the traditional South American coffee sock[0]
stainless steel might be less bad for environment if u chuck it in the bin but if you look at the entire process from getting ores to having the steel item i dont really think its a very big difference.
used to live nexto a huge steel refinery and many mental diseases and cancers in the area are up more than 50% not to mention lots of birth defects etc.
maybe its effects are more local idk. Not sure how glass and ceramic are made.
ofc not bad to try and eliminate plastics but having 1 plastic free device that is overly expensive is really just a status thing. it contributes nexto nothing to environmental goals which i think eliminating plastics belongs to.
u can just put the grounds in a cup and pour hot water on it afterall. tastes fine.
And unless you're picking it up at your roaster in a container you bring yourself the beans have probably been rattling around in a polyethylene-lined bag.
This sort of defeatism is why people don't try. Consumers can shift products through purchase behaviors. We're already seeing improvements in kitchen appliances and gear, cosmetics, some outdoor gear.
A small subset of coffee drinkers might produce a purchase trend that leads to a brief production of an overpriced coffee machine which still ends up being produced in the cheapest, dirtiest country they can get away with. The rest do not care and never will.
Believe it or not, lawsuits and regulations are much more effective. Consumer behavior rarely moves the needle. It may make you feel better, but you can’t consume your way to a better world.
Conspicuous consumption has many forms, “ethical” consumerism is just the latest variation.
Would love to see some research on this. My libertarian friends are a dog with a bone in their belief that our individual dollar-votes are the foremost and correct way we shape the economic landscape. I can’t imagine how anyone arrives there from research or history or experience, but I guess it keeps their Ayn Rand-ian ambition fired up.
That being said i wish they were right. I pay a premium for organic and farmers market. As well as plastic free everything. It feels good to support those businesses, but they are still mostly just getting by.
Beyond lawsuits and regulations - I’ve personally seen what Europe is doing to deploy financial programs for transitions to, for example, regenerative farming. It really works. With the extra funds/financing, farms are able to plan 2-5 year payback instead 10+. The incentive alignment makes a huge difference.
Asbestos, lead, CFCs, DDT, there’s a ton of examples of where it worked. The question as usual is where regulation is appropriate and how far it should go. Banning lead pipes was obvious, and it worked once people understood the downsides and limited upside, but banning drugs has been a failure.
You have to look at the demand side of the equation, because creating black markets isn’t a good idea, and neither is creating widespread resistance and discontent. Governments aren’t all powerful, so regulation has to focus on the stuff that’s most harmful and has the highest chance of success.
Took me forever to find a french press that was all glass and stainless steel. Most of them the little filter at the cap (which vintage ones lack entirely fwiw) is some black plastic, but I found a bodum off crate and barrel a couple years ago that was stainless for that part too.
I make coffee in an electric percolator. It’s stainless steel, the coffee never touches any plastic. People online say this is the worst way to make coffee, but it tastes fine to me.
I have a Technivorm Moccamaster KBG-V and they use good plastic for their parts but it's still plastic (except the thermal carafe etc). There's a new copycat version that's all glass and plastic (Simply Good I think?) but not sure how it actually performs.
What I'm surprised at is that no one has made non-plastic drop-in replacement parts for the reservoir, basket, and funnel. The KBG-V is highly modular so it's strange to me that no one has gone this route. It shouldn't change anything significant in the brewing process or quality of the coffee.
Huh. They used to say they specifically did not offer a glass or stainless version because it would get too hot to hold/use.
Instead of a new $500 coffee maker like the ones in the article, that takes special (likely costly) presssed pellets of coffee, get a Chemex pour over for $50 and you'll never need another coffee maker again (unless you drop it). No plastic, and you can use whatever coffee you want.
The original founder sold the company and the people who took over promptly did all the things people asked for and he said no to.
The glass aeropress is way more expensive ($200 rather than $30) and is bad in all the ways he said it'd be bad. Heavier, fragile, and makes worse coffee unless you put some extra effort into preheating it. Looks better, though.
Can't say I really have a problem with them. Let them sell expensive glass ones for the folks who care about the look. I've been plenty happy with my plastic ones (including the travel set).
It's not actually glass but a different synthetic/plastic. They do, however, make a stainless steel version. A lot of food safe stainless steel products are coated in PFAS though.
Now I'm going down the same rabbit hole I went down when people started talking about using wax instead of plastic, trying to determine if something being glass means it's definitely not plastic.
It does look like things we recognize as glass aren't plastic. So that's nice!
Typical paper cups that are used to serve coffee produce massively more plastic particles and they are more toxic. One cup per year exceeds what whole year of coffee maker plastic releases..
They do when they are at work. People don't carry a tumbler when they go to the movies. There are starbuck's what do you call groupies and alike. The pods produce a lot of micro plastic too.
Years ago I looked for all stainless coffee maker and even the most expensive ones had plastic parts. The drip mechanism for all of them had plastic parts. I don't know if they have changed or not.
Nope! The number of jokes I get at the office coffee machine (well the nespresso next to it) with my shot glass, you wouldn't believe. btw anyone tried the seaweed sphere capsules? :-)
I used to grind my coffee and manually make espresso. Years ago though I switched to an all-in-one. I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever. I've since had to replace some internal parts and I'm sure the display will eventually fail and not be replaceable, but those grinders are going to last centuries!
I'm assuming you've already noted in your will that the ceramic grinders be harvested from your coffee maker when everything's being sold at an estate sale otherwise what was the point of anything
> I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever.
I wonder about this - I've got a few 1Zpresso grinders - they're rated for 100-200kg of coffee, and napkin math says my most-used one has probably done about 70kg to date. At grinder prices and my age though, not sure I'd ever come out ahead with BIFL burrs though.
No ceramic burr grinders make comparable coffee to steel burrs. They’re all worse. Enjoy your steel burrs and don’t overthink it. Even “worn out” I bet they will taste better than ceramic burrs.
I mean, among real coffee snobs the status symbol is mostly not using a Keurig or Lavazza machine at all. Pour overs, Espresso machines, most status symbol coffee equipment is pretty light on the plastic already.
Yeah, my normal morning coffee for my wife and I is from a Kalita Wave glass brewer. No plastic touches the coffee. Costs $40. Ceramic or stainless steel also available.
I think it's less about status or quality and more about a convenient cup of complimentary coffee in a waiting room that doesn't come with two ounces of environmental guilt.
This. Anyone serious about coffee who is not going with one of these machines purely for convenience and speed would not otherwise consider them in a million years.
When I drank coffee I would use a Hario V60. Avoiding plastic is trivial (and cheap). $40-50 for the entire setup. I preferred to waste my money on expensive beans instead.
I would enjoy a plastic-free drip machine with a thermal carafe for convenient large batches. For now, been enjoying a stainless steel french press and pour over.
Do people take pods coffee seriously? If you want to signal true status with coffee you pull your roasted coffee beans from a very exotic place, ground them in your very expensive stainless steel manual grinder and make a very strong, very flavorful espresso in your generic chinese espresso machine (that steo is just heat, water and pressure, no need to go overboard there).
In the hinterlands we use a variable speed drill, a Hilti at this level, to power our manual grinder for the roasted exotic beans before using a stainless steel Alessi moka pot for our coffee.
No sense using our hands to belabor the point when grinding.
Nonsense. They are different drinks. Filter coffee through a French press can be fantastic, as can Espresso. You can also get dreadful espresso and dreadful filter coffee. However if you start with good beans the chance of getting good coffee out of a French press is much higher than a proper espresso machine (If you know what you're doing it can be amazing, but dialing it in properly is no easy task)
I think you mean that setup does not make good espresso compared to an espresso machine. As someone that enjoys good coffee but doesn't particularly like drinking an overly strong thimble of coffee, a cup of milk on top of a thimble of coffee or a grossly stringent cup of coffee I hate the equation that espresso is the best coffee. My favourite bits of coffee, what I enjoy in lighter roasts is lost in espresso. Espresso is nice for cafes because it's a quick non-batch brew, that's about it.
So ridiculous we already have ESE pods for traditional expresso machines. We replaced the Nespresso machine in the office with a normal expresso machine so people can make bring their own ground coffee if they want but we also offer ESE pods for people who don't care but still want a good coffee.
Huh, cool. If you want to save a few bucks you can go with a stainless steel French press or a mason jar if you're into cold brews. You're symbolizing a different kind of status though.
This summer was sunny and hot in Colorado, so every morning I'd make a jar of sun coffee. I'd leave it out through the day and overnight. The next morning I'd pull it in, filter it, refill it with grounds and water and take it outside again. It was cool enough to enjoy and really smooth.
i dont like french press coffee
I use a moka pot. I don't feel comfortable calling what it makes espresso but for it's still pretty decent. If I had more patience I would do pour over at home.
Well, the moka pot makes moka, not espresso ;-).
FWIW, French press and cold brew are entirely different - the fact that a French press was used to filter cold brew is really kind of incidental.
I should get my cold brew setup out, thanks for the reminder.
> You're symbolizing a different kind of status though.
Now I'm curious whether you mean a higher status (which I infer when folks are using such things) or a lower status (which I could also infer).
French press coffee isn't so healthy either because of stuff like cafestols in the fines (small diameter grounds) that slip through the french press screen. To get rid of those you want a brewing scheme with a paper filter. The simplest no-plastic approach is a Chemex. They have a history and they also look cool as heck. Unfortunately, since they are made of glass, they can break if you're not careful. https://chemexcoffeemaker.com/
Which is ironic because if you’re into Chemex you’re into vinyl, in my experience.
The Chemex can also be a little annoying because of the tendency of the filter to block the 'spout', causing the brewer to stall, and requiring a chopstick or straw to avoid. That said, I use my Chemex twice a week.
What is the advantage of this over a normal paper filter coffee maker?
When I broke my french press I got by fine with just throwing grounds in a pot of boiled water and decanting it off after a few minutes steep. Basically all the press does anyhow just less convenient.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even the $10k slayer espresso machine has a plastic water resevoir. Granted the brewing assembly is mostly plastic free.
While I sympathize with the sentiment to eliminate plastic from the transport chain for anything ingestible, it's practically impossible in the modern world.
Simple is usually best; glass or ceramic pour over, stainless press, or even the traditional South American coffee sock[0]
[0]https://perfectdailygrind.com/2016/01/coffee-sock-old-school...
stainless steel might be less bad for environment if u chuck it in the bin but if you look at the entire process from getting ores to having the steel item i dont really think its a very big difference.
used to live nexto a huge steel refinery and many mental diseases and cancers in the area are up more than 50% not to mention lots of birth defects etc.
maybe its effects are more local idk. Not sure how glass and ceramic are made.
ofc not bad to try and eliminate plastics but having 1 plastic free device that is overly expensive is really just a status thing. it contributes nexto nothing to environmental goals which i think eliminating plastics belongs to.
u can just put the grounds in a cup and pour hot water on it afterall. tastes fine.
It’s not about the environment for a lot of people, it’s about microplastics and their body
And unless you're picking it up at your roaster in a container you bring yourself the beans have probably been rattling around in a polyethylene-lined bag.
> it's practically impossible in the modern world
This sort of defeatism is why people don't try. Consumers can shift products through purchase behaviors. We're already seeing improvements in kitchen appliances and gear, cosmetics, some outdoor gear.
A small subset of coffee drinkers might produce a purchase trend that leads to a brief production of an overpriced coffee machine which still ends up being produced in the cheapest, dirtiest country they can get away with. The rest do not care and never will.
Believe it or not, lawsuits and regulations are much more effective. Consumer behavior rarely moves the needle. It may make you feel better, but you can’t consume your way to a better world.
Conspicuous consumption has many forms, “ethical” consumerism is just the latest variation.
Would love to see some research on this. My libertarian friends are a dog with a bone in their belief that our individual dollar-votes are the foremost and correct way we shape the economic landscape. I can’t imagine how anyone arrives there from research or history or experience, but I guess it keeps their Ayn Rand-ian ambition fired up.
That being said i wish they were right. I pay a premium for organic and farmers market. As well as plastic free everything. It feels good to support those businesses, but they are still mostly just getting by.
Beyond lawsuits and regulations - I’ve personally seen what Europe is doing to deploy financial programs for transitions to, for example, regenerative farming. It really works. With the extra funds/financing, farms are able to plan 2-5 year payback instead 10+. The incentive alignment makes a huge difference.
Asbestos, lead, CFCs, DDT, there’s a ton of examples of where it worked. The question as usual is where regulation is appropriate and how far it should go. Banning lead pipes was obvious, and it worked once people understood the downsides and limited upside, but banning drugs has been a failure.
You have to look at the demand side of the equation, because creating black markets isn’t a good idea, and neither is creating widespread resistance and discontent. Governments aren’t all powerful, so regulation has to focus on the stuff that’s most harmful and has the highest chance of success.
I was very skeptical but apparently the Caraway machine uses a glass reservoir and stainless steel pipes.
This one has a glass reservoir. Look at the product page images before you decide to bear any news
Well, it was paywalled, but that's beside the point. The point is that this marketeering contraption solves a problem that the marketeers created.
Coffee was enjoyed for hundreds of years before plastic was invented. The answer is not to get rid of the plastic, but get rid of the machine.
I like Moka pots. Zero plastic
But seriously it's a shame how hard it is to find products like coffee makers and electric kettles with no plastic. Heat and plastic don't mix
Took me forever to find a french press that was all glass and stainless steel. Most of them the little filter at the cap (which vintage ones lack entirely fwiw) is some black plastic, but I found a bodum off crate and barrel a couple years ago that was stainless for that part too.
I make coffee in an electric percolator. It’s stainless steel, the coffee never touches any plastic. People online say this is the worst way to make coffee, but it tastes fine to me.
I have a Technivorm Moccamaster KBG-V and they use good plastic for their parts but it's still plastic (except the thermal carafe etc). There's a new copycat version that's all glass and plastic (Simply Good I think?) but not sure how it actually performs.
What I'm surprised at is that no one has made non-plastic drop-in replacement parts for the reservoir, basket, and funnel. The KBG-V is highly modular so it's strange to me that no one has gone this route. It shouldn't change anything significant in the brewing process or quality of the coffee.
Does it even make a difference for non-heated parts? Potable water is delivered in PVC pipes and HDPE hoses these days.
Aeropress makes a glass version although I was never too concerned about the microplastic risk
Huh. They used to say they specifically did not offer a glass or stainless version because it would get too hot to hold/use.
Instead of a new $500 coffee maker like the ones in the article, that takes special (likely costly) presssed pellets of coffee, get a Chemex pour over for $50 and you'll never need another coffee maker again (unless you drop it). No plastic, and you can use whatever coffee you want.
Bodum makes a pourover thingy that is no more than $20-30. Chemex is just the "prestige" brand.
How are other people supposed to understand that you’re wealthy and attractive if you buy the plebeian brand?
The original founder sold the company and the people who took over promptly did all the things people asked for and he said no to.
The glass aeropress is way more expensive ($200 rather than $30) and is bad in all the ways he said it'd be bad. Heavier, fragile, and makes worse coffee unless you put some extra effort into preheating it. Looks better, though.
Can't say I really have a problem with them. Let them sell expensive glass ones for the folks who care about the look. I've been plenty happy with my plastic ones (including the travel set).
> Huh. They used to say they specifically did not offer a glass or stainless version because it would get too hot to hold/use.
The expensive glass one uses double walled glass, so it’s not too bad. It’s $200 though which is ridiculous.
It's not actually glass but a different synthetic/plastic. They do, however, make a stainless steel version. A lot of food safe stainless steel products are coated in PFAS though.
I own one. It's glass and cast aluminum. Pricey but feels very solid. The glass does not get hot. It's very think.
Now I'm going down the same rabbit hole I went down when people started talking about using wax instead of plastic, trying to determine if something being glass means it's definitely not plastic.
It does look like things we recognize as glass aren't plastic. So that's nice!
Typical paper cups that are used to serve coffee produce massively more plastic particles and they are more toxic. One cup per year exceeds what whole year of coffee maker plastic releases..
plastic coffee maker: 7-20 particles
paper cup : 25000 particles
https://getplasticproof.com/blog/does-coffee-have-microplast...
https://sifts.co/blogs/microplastics/microplastics-and-coffe...
https://sprudge.com/hot-to-go-which-type-of-coffee-has-the-m...
Ok, but real coffee drinkers don't use paper cups ...
They do when they are at work. People don't carry a tumbler when they go to the movies. There are starbuck's what do you call groupies and alike. The pods produce a lot of micro plastic too.
Years ago I looked for all stainless coffee maker and even the most expensive ones had plastic parts. The drip mechanism for all of them had plastic parts. I don't know if they have changed or not.
Nope! The number of jokes I get at the office coffee machine (well the nespresso next to it) with my shot glass, you wouldn't believe. btw anyone tried the seaweed sphere capsules? :-)
Never had heard of seaweed capsules.. neat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvktnHozAj4&t=71s
Love my La Pavoni.
Check out Coffee Sensor -- they make non-plastic replacement parts, so you can get fully plastic free.
I used to grind my coffee and manually make espresso. Years ago though I switched to an all-in-one. I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever. I've since had to replace some internal parts and I'm sure the display will eventually fail and not be replaceable, but those grinders are going to last centuries!
I'm assuming you've already noted in your will that the ceramic grinders be harvested from your coffee maker when everything's being sold at an estate sale otherwise what was the point of anything
> I was very adamant that it had to have ceramic grinders so that it will last forever.
I wonder about this - I've got a few 1Zpresso grinders - they're rated for 100-200kg of coffee, and napkin math says my most-used one has probably done about 70kg to date. At grinder prices and my age though, not sure I'd ever come out ahead with BIFL burrs though.
No ceramic burr grinders make comparable coffee to steel burrs. They’re all worse. Enjoy your steel burrs and don’t overthink it. Even “worn out” I bet they will taste better than ceramic burrs.
I mean, among real coffee snobs the status symbol is mostly not using a Keurig or Lavazza machine at all. Pour overs, Espresso machines, most status symbol coffee equipment is pretty light on the plastic already.
Yeah, my normal morning coffee for my wife and I is from a Kalita Wave glass brewer. No plastic touches the coffee. Costs $40. Ceramic or stainless steel also available.
I think it's less about status or quality and more about a convenient cup of complimentary coffee in a waiting room that doesn't come with two ounces of environmental guilt.
This. Anyone serious about coffee who is not going with one of these machines purely for convenience and speed would not otherwise consider them in a million years.
It's CNN. Not exactly news snobs.
When I drank coffee I would use a Hario V60. Avoiding plastic is trivial (and cheap). $40-50 for the entire setup. I preferred to waste my money on expensive beans instead.
Hario Switch for me. The cheap manual devices make the best brew. Mind you, I make only one strong cup in the am and it's just for me.
I would enjoy a plastic-free drip machine with a thermal carafe for convenient large batches. For now, been enjoying a stainless steel french press and pour over.
Join team instant coffee. It's way better then its rep. No microplastics either.
Unfortunately instant coffee still has microplastics from the production process. Probably even more than regular coffee actually.
good thread to lookup : https://x.com/levelsio/status/2088235859887726696
Do people take pods coffee seriously? If you want to signal true status with coffee you pull your roasted coffee beans from a very exotic place, ground them in your very expensive stainless steel manual grinder and make a very strong, very flavorful espresso in your generic chinese espresso machine (that steo is just heat, water and pressure, no need to go overboard there).
In the hinterlands we use a variable speed drill, a Hilti at this level, to power our manual grinder for the roasted exotic beans before using a stainless steel Alessi moka pot for our coffee.
No sense using our hands to belabor the point when grinding.
Hmm, is all the metal food safe? To what extent?
i just use a stainless steel electric kettle, and a glass ikea french press
$55ish CAD total
This setup does not make good coffee compared to an espresso machine.
It does if you like French press
I wouldn't consider a French-press coffee to be espresso. In fact, espresso is probably too fine for a French press.
Nonsense. They are different drinks. Filter coffee through a French press can be fantastic, as can Espresso. You can also get dreadful espresso and dreadful filter coffee. However if you start with good beans the chance of getting good coffee out of a French press is much higher than a proper espresso machine (If you know what you're doing it can be amazing, but dialing it in properly is no easy task)
I think you mean that setup does not make good espresso compared to an espresso machine. As someone that enjoys good coffee but doesn't particularly like drinking an overly strong thimble of coffee, a cup of milk on top of a thimble of coffee or a grossly stringent cup of coffee I hate the equation that espresso is the best coffee. My favourite bits of coffee, what I enjoy in lighter roasts is lost in espresso. Espresso is nice for cafes because it's a quick non-batch brew, that's about it.
You can have good coffee from any method.
Status: titanium credit card at expensive local coffee shop.
So ridiculous we already have ESE pods for traditional expresso machines. We replaced the Nespresso machine in the office with a normal expresso machine so people can make bring their own ground coffee if they want but we also offer ESE pods for people who don't care but still want a good coffee.
I hate it that Apple products still have so much plastic in them. Makes them look flimsy.
I must be hot shit then, my portafilter has no plasic and neither does my grinder.
I think the status symbol is not having enough time to make it at home and also being able to afford it at Starbucks.